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Author
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Topic: ICR Sues Texas
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Percy
Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.0
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archaeologist writes: yet we have evidence and we do not make 'assertions;'. it is not our fault that secularists close their minds to what they do not want to hear. As Huntard has already noted, you keep stating what you believe, but never why. You need to explain the evidence and reasoning that led you to believe as you do.
one piece of evidence is --- gravity. secular science cannot figure it out, cannot solve how it works, cannot provide any evidence for its origin and why it can keep people on earth while holding the moon in place. nor can they explain why the gravitational pull from the sun does NOT rip it out of its orbit with earth. Cavediver already pointed out the errors, so I'll just mention that even if we didn't understand gravity at all, things we don't yet understand are not evidence of anything. If you think they are then a thread where discussing this would be on topic is your Creation as Science thread. You could begin supporting all your unsupported assertions. --Percy
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Percy
Member Posts: 22490 From: New Hampshire Joined: 12-23-2000 Member Rating: 5.0
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Dawn Bertot writes: That depends on what you consider evidence lets see if we can agree on what constitues evidence before even going down that road. Agreed? Evidence is anything that can be detected by our senses. Indirect means of gathering evidence, such as instrumentation like thermometers, microscopes and Large Hadron Colliders, are also valid. --Percy
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: There is no Theory of Creation
Dr Adequate writes: Miracles are "matter of fact according to real life"? Complexity and order allegedly effected by chance implicates miracle more than complexity by intelligently planned design . That's an observed real here and now observation.
Dr Adequate writes: We have obviously lived very different lives. I find reproduction with variation a lot more matter of fact, 'cos of being able to observe it. If you're referring to matter of fact micro-evolution, the intelligent designer had that in mind when designing life forms.
Dr Adequate writes: From which we deduce that gravity was not designed and created, since it does. Yes, but the concocted theory involves the debatable topic of the properties of space. There's yet a lot of questionable mystery involved in the secularist explanation of gravity for which there is no empirical model.
Dr Adequate writes: Buzsaw writes: Most of what we observe in (abe: here and now) real life tends towards chaos, decay, corrosion, extermination, non-complexity and disorder when void of intelligent design and management. We have obviously been observing very different things. I've been observing the real world. You haven't observed that everything made in the here and now (I say here and now) world around us required intelligent planning and requires preservation management? Are you a blind deaf-mute, by any chance? 
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Poe?
one piece of evidence is --- gravity. secular science cannot figure it out, cannot solve how it works, cannot provide any evidence for its origin and why it can keep people on earth while holding the moon in place. nor can they explain why the gravitational pull from the sun does NOT rip it out of its orbit with earth. Once again I would like to suggest that archaeologist is a deliberate joke --- that he may be just pulling our legs with the whole "dumb creationist" act.
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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Message 155 of 549 (577758)
08-30-2010 9:54 AM
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Reply to: Message 153 by Buzsaw
08-30-2010 9:06 AM
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Re: There is no Theory of Creation
Complexity and order allegedly effected by chance implicates miracle more than complexity by intelligently planned design . That's an observed real here and now observation. Actually it's barely an English sentence.
If you're referring to matter of fact micro-evolution, the intelligent designer had that in mind when designing life forms. When you have given some evidence that this "intelligent designer" exists and that you can read his mind, I shall take this assertion more seriously.
Yes, but the concocted theory involves the debatable topic of the properties of space. There's yet a lot of questionable mystery involved in the secularist explanation of gravity for which there is no empirical model. Are you suggesting that a better understanding of it would involve no theory and no equations? Otherwise this waffle hardly answers my point.
You haven't observed that everything made in the here and now (I say here and now) world around us required intelligent planning and requires preservation management? No, and I also haven't spotted any flying pigs.
Are you a blind deaf-mute, by any chance? That's not actually why I don't suffer from audio-visual hallucinations, no.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 153 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 9:06 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 159 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 8:56 PM | | Dr Adequate has not replied |
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 310 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: 07-20-2006
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yet creation is not under the secular authority and those rules do not apply to it. The fact that you wish to guard your own pet bit of silliness from scrutiny according to the same rules that every other idea gets suggests that on some level you are aware of how silly your idea is. You would hardly be making desperate excuses like this if the evidence showed that your beliefs were true, would you?
its vulnerability is the same as evolutions', it is NOT a repeatable occurance. secular scientists CANNOT repeat the origin of life nor the interception of that life by the process known as evolution thus it fails to qualify as secularists claim creation fails. If you don't know anything about the scientific method, why would you worry so much about what would happen if it was applied to creationism?
at best all you can do is test the results of evolution BUT the problem with that is, evolutionists have failed to show beyond any reasonable doubt and with evidence that the process actually exists and IS responsible for the declared and claimed changes in llife throughout history. That is just what they have shown: which is why unreasonable doubt is all you have left.
That is an impossible task given that life follows what Genesis 1 says and the results of creation are seen everyday and are not hypothesized, conjectured, assumed et al. Do you have a shred of evidence for your hypothesis, conjecture, and assumption that what we see every day is the result of creation?
and one does not have to wait a million years to see the changes. How long do I have to wait to see God poofing species into existence by magic?
mutations are simply the reaction of a perfect gene made at creation and corrupted by sin and death that entered the world at adam's sin. If only you had a shred of evidence for this.
there is NO possible way to prove the process of evolution had a hand in its change. In what's change? If you mean the imaginary "perfect gene made at creation", then there is indeed no possible way to prove that evolution had anything to do with this fictional entity. In which case you have inadvertently told the truth. Is there some sort of penance you have to do for that?
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jar
Member (Idle past 420 days) Posts: 34026 From: Texas!! Joined: 04-20-2004
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Re: There is no Theory of Creation
Dawn Bertot writes: the manipulation as you describe it is in its self sustaining, self supported, independent order that it adheres to in the first place. It carries out a preprogrammed set of laws and rules. Then the designer is irrelevant and unimportant. Throw the designer away as unneeded.
Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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DavidOH
Junior Member (Idle past 4480 days) Posts: 11 From: Cincinnati, OH, USA Joined: 09-12-2008
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Is there a third possibility
I disagree with your list of two possible answers (evolution or creation) for biology. The real answer to life, the universe & everything is unknown to us as we have no human documentation of the beginning and development of life on this planet. We have one possible explanation in evolution and another in creation. Does evolution best fit the available physical evidence? Is there physical evidence that contradicts or invalidates evolution? Does creation best fit the available physical evidence? Is there physical evidence that contradicts or invalidates creation? BOTH theories can fail. We may just be too limited to realize the real answer. Finding fault with evolution does not validate creation. Political example - The Democratic candidate is a complete moron and will cause the end of civilization if elected. By coincidence the Republican candidate is a complete idiot and will cause the end of civilization if elected. If you have only these two choices, the result is the end of civilization. (Am I bitter and disillusioned or just realistic?) Edited by DavidOH, : Trying to clarify.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 94 by Dawn Bertot, posted 08-28-2010 7:26 PM | | Dawn Bertot has not replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Re: There is no Theory of Creation
Dr Adequate writes: Actually it's barely an English sentence. When you have given some evidence that this "intelligent designer" exists and that you can read his mind, I shall take this assertion more seriously. Are you suggesting that a better understanding of it would involve no theory and no equations? Otherwise this waffle hardly answers my point. No, and I also haven't spotted any flying pigs. That's not actually why I don't suffer from audio-visual hallucinations, no. Dr Adequate, the only reason for bringing forth your responses to my pertinent points is to ask why you even bothered to respond and whether you have something besides substanceless yada to say supportive of your positions. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 182 by Admin, posted 08-31-2010 8:15 AM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2132 days) Posts: 6117 Joined: 01-12-2008
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Message 160 of 549 (577885)
08-30-2010 9:24 PM
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Reply to: Message 153 by Buzsaw
08-30-2010 9:06 AM
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Re: There is no Theory of Creation
You haven't observed that everything made in the here and now (I say here and now) world around us required intelligent planning and requires preservation management?
Click to enlarge.
Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 153 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 9:06 AM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 163 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:38 PM | | Coyote has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 161 of 549 (577889)
08-30-2010 10:16 PM
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Reply to: Message 134 by Percy
08-29-2010 9:14 PM
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Re: ICR Science
Percy writes: ICR would probably tend to agree with you, and this anti-science attitude combined with appeals to a higher power were probably significant contributors to Texas's decision to deny ICR accreditation But Intelligence Design science is not anti-science just because it is an alternative to secularistic science. Here are just a few examples of ICR Science Papers. The Religion-and-Science Connection Between Pseudonumos and Pseudomarturia Technical Papers | James J. S. Johnson, J.D., Th.D. | Mar 27, 2009 Using Numerical Simulation to Test the Validity of Neo-Darwinian Theory Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 A Proposed Mesoscale Simulation of Precipitation in Yosemite National Park with a Warm Ocean Technical Papers | Larry Vardiman, Ph.D. | Aug 3, 2008 Mendel's Accountant: A New Population Genetics Simulation Tool for Studying Mutation and Natural Selection Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 Ocean Circulation Velocities over the Continents during Noah's Flood Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 Radiohalos and Diamonds: Are Diamonds Really for Ever? Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 Simulation Analysis of Glacial Surging in the Des Moines Ice Lobe Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 Snake Hybridization: A Case for Intrabaraminic Diversity Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 The Creation of Cosmic Magnetic Fields Technical Papers | D. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D. | Aug 3, 2008 The "Eve" Mitochondrial Consensus Sequence Technical Papers | Various Authors | Aug 3, 2008 Shades of the Enlightenment! Technical Papers | James J. S. Johnson, J.D., Th.D. | Mar 24, 2007 Fission Tracks in Zircons: Evidence for Abundant Nuclear Decay Technical Papers | Andrew A. Snelling, Ph.D. | Nov 1, 2005 Young Helium Diffusion Age of Zircons Supports Accelerated Nuclear Decay Technical Papers | D. Russell Humphreys, Ph.D. | Nov 1, 2005 Radiohalos in Granites: Evidence for Accelerated Nuclear Decay Technical Papers | Andrew A. Snelling, Ph.D. | Nov 1, 2005 There are many more examples proving that ICR is not anti-science and does indead do science and teach science.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 134 by Percy, posted 08-29-2010 9:14 PM | | Percy has replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3986 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 162 of 549 (577891)
08-30-2010 10:37 PM
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Reply to: Message 161 by Buzsaw
08-30-2010 10:16 PM
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Re: ICR Science
Hi, Buz. It looks like your list is just a bunch of technical papers never published anywhere but the ICR site. Is that right?
Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!-Gogol Bordello
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 161 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:16 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 166 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:50 PM | | Omnivorous has replied |
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member
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Message 163 of 549 (577892)
08-30-2010 10:38 PM
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Reply to: Message 160 by Coyote
08-30-2010 9:24 PM
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Re: Creation Science
Coyote, my point was intended to refer to things designed in the here and now. Your examples no more refute my point intended than if you gave examples of animals etc. New things made showing design which have not existed in the past are all indicative that complex things are designed, made and managed by intelligent design. They tend toward disorder and disintegration if not intelligently managed and maintained. ICR's version of science should not be subject to what the government of Texas considers to be suitable for accreditation.
BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW. The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 160 by Coyote, posted 08-30-2010 9:24 PM | | Coyote has replied |
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subbie
Member (Idle past 1280 days) Posts: 3509 Joined: 02-26-2006
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Message 164 of 549 (577893)
08-30-2010 10:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 163 by Buzsaw
08-30-2010 10:38 PM
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Re: Creation Science
ICR's version of science should not be subject to what the government of Texas considers to be suitable for accreditation. Except for the fact that they applied for accreditation. You do know what accreditation means, don't you?
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. -- Thomas Jefferson We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate ...creationists have a great way to detect fraud and it doesn't take 8 or 40 years or even a scientific degree to spot the fraud--'if it disagrees with the bible then it is wrong'.... -- archaeologist
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 163 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:38 PM | | Buzsaw has not replied |
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Omnivorous
Member Posts: 3986 From: Adirondackia Joined: 07-21-2005 Member Rating: 7.1
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Message 165 of 549 (577894)
08-30-2010 10:47 PM
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Reply to: Message 163 by Buzsaw
08-30-2010 10:38 PM
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If ICR can't make it in Texas...
Buz writes: ICR's version of science should not be subject to what the government of Texas considers to be suitable for accreditation. They can't even get accredited in Texas?! I didn't know the liberal conspiracy had caught on down there. Are you opposed to all accreditation of schools?
Have you ever been to an American wedding? Where's the vodka? Where's the marinated herring?!-Gogol Bordello
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 163 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:38 PM | | Buzsaw has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 169 by Buzsaw, posted 08-30-2010 10:56 PM | | Omnivorous has replied |
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