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Author Topic:   Bush promotes ID
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 821
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 151 of 195 (233991)
08-17-2005 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Tal
08-17-2005 9:11 AM


Re: On a lighter note...Dean says No to ID
No it doesn't and if you would just even read one good textbook on evolution you would know that. Evolution doesn't cover how life first started, that's abiogenisis. Evolution also doesn't say that one day, poof, a dog gives birth to a non-dog, it just says that genetic mutations coupled with selection pressures can change the genetic makeup of a species enough for it to become a new species. This is a gradual process and has been likened to a spectrum of light. There is no clear point at which one species became another (was it at mutation #500 or #632 or ...?) just as there is no clear point where red becomes orange, but we have different species that are closely related.
Now back on topic, I think it's great that there is actually a politician with a working brain who is willing to call ID what it is. Dean is a far better man than Bush in regards to science it appears. Bush has been one of the most anti-science presidents of late.
This message has been edited by kjsimons, 08-17-2005 09:30 AM

This message is a reply to:
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FliesOnly
Member (Idle past 4144 days)
Posts: 797
From: Michigan
Joined: 12-01-2003


Message 152 of 195 (233994)
08-17-2005 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 150 by Tal
08-17-2005 9:11 AM


Re: On a lighter note...Dean says No to ID
Tal writes:
One that believes a dog can produce a non-dog (despite zero evidence) and that a dog came from a rock 4.6 billion years agao (despite zero evidence).
Kjsimons writes:
Well it's a good thing that that's not what evolution say then isn't it?
Tal writes:
That is EXACTLY what evolution says.
Either show us, Tal, where the ToE makes this claim or retract this statement.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by Tal, posted 08-17-2005 9:11 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by CK, posted 08-17-2005 10:02 AM FliesOnly has not replied
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CK
Member (Idle past 4127 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 153 of 195 (234002)
08-17-2005 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by FliesOnly
08-17-2005 9:30 AM


Forgot it - Tal prefers just to wander around like a virtual tramp mumbling statements that he's either unable to support (because he doesn't know what he's on about) or unwilling to support (because he knows that he doesn't know what he's on about).
He made a similar statement last week but it was some rubbish about People evoling from frogs or some such nonsense. How he manages to get away with it for so long is beyond me. I suspect it's because he's just about bright enough to know that he'd get suspended for such nonsense in the science forums.
(click on his posting history - you will notice that he tries to avoid any of the evidence based forums).

This message is a reply to:
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Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 154 of 195 (234006)
08-17-2005 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by FliesOnly
08-17-2005 9:30 AM


Re: On a lighter note...Dean says No to ID
Either show us, Tal, where the ToE makes this claim or retract this statement.
And Arach says I backpedal. Wow.
Evolution - Wikipedia
The common definition of the word in popular science includes the emergence of new species as a product of evolution as well...
A group of organisms is said to have common descent if they have a common ancestor. In biology, the theory of universal common descent proposes that all organisms on Earth are descended from a common ancestor or ancestral gene pool.
In addition, abiogenesis the generation of life from non-living matter has never been observed, indicating that the origin of life from non-life is either extremely rare or only happens under conditions very unlike those of modern Earth.
Since abiogenesis is rare or impossible under modern conditions and the evolutionary process is exceedingly slow, the diversity and complexity of modern life requires that the Earth be very old, on the order of billions of years. This is compatible with geological evidence that the Earth is approximately 4.6 billion years old.

'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton

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Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 155 of 195 (234009)
08-17-2005 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by CK
08-17-2005 10:02 AM


He made a similar statement last week but it was some rubbish about People evoling from frogs or some such nonsense.
Because that is what you think happened. 4.6 billion years ago, life magically began by some mysterious atmospheric burp and that life somehow evolved into Charles Knight.
Are you backpedaling too?

'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 156 of 195 (234010)
08-17-2005 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by paisano
08-03-2005 12:49 PM


Re: Should ID be censored?
ID is not scientific, and weakening K-12 science education is likely to have long-term deleterious effects on the economic competitveness and military technology and strength of the US.
After all we don't want our guys in fox holes saying "God help me please"

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Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by Tal, posted 08-17-2005 10:17 AM riVeRraT has replied
 Message 158 by Jazzns, posted 08-17-2005 10:23 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Tal
Member (Idle past 5676 days)
Posts: 1140
From: Fort Bragg, NC
Joined: 12-29-2004


Message 157 of 195 (234013)
08-17-2005 10:17 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by riVeRraT
08-17-2005 10:10 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
After all we don't want our guys in fox holes saying "God help me please"
Naw, we simply say, "Let's help this devout follower of Islam get his 72 virgins a little faster."

'Now isn't it amazing. I tell you that nobody made a simple toy like that (solar system model) and you don't believe me. Yet you gaze out into the solar System - the intricate marvelous machine that is around you - and you dare say to me that no one made that. I don't believe it'. -Sir Isaac Newton

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:10 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Jazzns, posted 08-17-2005 10:26 AM Tal has replied
 Message 161 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:27 AM Tal has not replied
 Message 162 by Parasomnium, posted 08-17-2005 10:29 AM Tal has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 158 of 195 (234016)
08-17-2005 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by riVeRraT
08-17-2005 10:10 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
What a terrible reply!
No one is saying that religion is bad for our military but rather than de-emphasizing real science will negativly impact our ability to keep up in the everlasting arms race of military technology. The US is a superpower because of its technological and industrial might. Take that away and all we are is one big North American target.
Seriously. Why do these discussions have to decend into nonsense. Be honest and argue the position. I think it is disgusting that you post over all kinds of other threads about Christ and morals and then come in here and display this kind of dishonest childish behavior.

Organizations worth supporting:
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AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:10 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:31 AM Jazzns has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 159 of 195 (234018)
08-17-2005 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Yaro
08-03-2005 10:58 AM


ID
I think it should mentioned in schools. In what classroom, I don't know, but it should be mentioned.
People say there is no evidence of intelligent design, well I say there is none against it, because if it is intelligent design, then the whole universe is evidence. We have no proof of how everything started.
This should also be a separate issue from religion, which I believe should also be made known to kids in school, all the religions, but it should be taught by people who are qualified to teach it, i.e. believers. (can you hear the can of worms opening?)
What is it?

This message is a reply to:
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Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 160 of 195 (234021)
08-17-2005 10:26 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Tal
08-17-2005 10:17 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Wow. Love of Christ in action.
This coming from a guy who spends more time on his sigs than his posts.

Organizations worth supporting:
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This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Tal, posted 08-17-2005 10:17 AM Tal has replied

Replies to this message:
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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 161 of 195 (234023)
08-17-2005 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Tal
08-17-2005 10:17 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Thats the problem right there. It's not 72 virgins, it's 72 Virginians, waiting with bats, and chains.
If we could just let them know, they might stop what they are doing. lol

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Parasomnium
Member
Posts: 2224
Joined: 07-15-2003


Message 162 of 195 (234026)
08-17-2005 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 157 by Tal
08-17-2005 10:17 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Tal writes:
Naw, we simply say, "Let's help this devout follower of Islam get his 72 virgins a little faster."
Tal? Are you the guy who shot that wounded Iraki, as shown in video footage that went around the world sometime ago?
No? Well, you could have fooled me.
What an awful character you are!

We are all atheists about most of the gods that humanity has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. - Richard Dawkins

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by Tal, posted 08-17-2005 10:17 AM Tal has replied

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riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 163 of 195 (234028)
08-17-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by Jazzns
08-17-2005 10:23 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
Of course that's the position. Why would it de-emphasize real science. It's a mind expander, and would only help.
Seriously. Why do these discussions have to decend into nonsense. Be honest and argue the position. I think it is disgusting that you post over all kinds of other threads about Christ and morals and then come in here and display this kind of dishonest childish behavior.
Well isn't that just too bad. You don't want to take away my freedom now do you? How very communistic of you. This whole thread is about religious overtones, and what Bush is trying to do, give me a break, and take your insults and go somewhere else.
I didn't even mention Christ, so maybe you should go check yourself. Maybe you are feeling convicted?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Jazzns, posted 08-17-2005 10:23 AM Jazzns has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by Jazzns, posted 08-17-2005 10:34 AM riVeRraT has replied

  
Jazzns
Member (Idle past 3911 days)
Posts: 2657
From: A Better America
Joined: 07-23-2004


Message 164 of 195 (234031)
08-17-2005 10:31 AM
Reply to: Message 159 by riVeRraT
08-17-2005 10:25 AM


Re: ID
So what do plan on displacing in order to teach:
Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Secular/Nonreligious/Agnostic/Atheist: 1.1 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
primal-indigenous: 300 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand
Will it be?
History
Math
Life Sciences
Earth Sciences
Reading
Spelling
Writing
Grammar
Social Studies
Health
Art
Music
PE
Foreign Language
???

Organizations worth supporting:
Electronic Frontier Foundation | Defending your rights in the digital world (Protect Privacy and Security)
Home | American Civil Liberties Union (Protect Civil Rights)
AAUP (Protect Higher Learning)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:25 AM riVeRraT has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by riVeRraT, posted 08-17-2005 10:33 AM Jazzns has replied

  
riVeRraT
Member (Idle past 415 days)
Posts: 5788
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 165 of 195 (234032)
08-17-2005 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Jazzns
08-17-2005 10:26 AM


Re: Should ID be censored?
That's not a sig.
Doh!

This message is a reply to:
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