Atheism on the Rise

Then how do you account for the fact that no two people have an identical idea of morality and that different human cultures differ vastly in their assessments of what is considered to be good and evil?

ICANT, I think I'm beginning to understand your opinion about morality being hardwired into all of us by your god. Are you referring to this like Asimov's 3 laws of robotics?(1) A robot may not injure a human being or, through inaction, allow a human being to come to harm.(2) A robot must obey orders given to it by human beings, except where such orders would conflict with the First Law.(3) A robot must protect its own existence as long as such protection does not conflict with the First or Second Law.According to Asimov, different robots would develop different personalities through experiences. But their beings always operate under these 3 laws while some other laws may be added later on.Are you suggesting that we all started out with the same basic moral structures and as time goes on people develop new moral ideas based on their varying experiences?

ICANT writes:

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I can assure you that no born again child of God has ever asked anyone that question.

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The "No True Scotsman" fallacy?You know better than that.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Son writes:

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What i meant is that we already have non-religious charities. (Unicef and stuffs like that). It's just that when an atheist will create a charity, he will only reference what they do, not what they don't believe in because it wouldn't make sense to say:"atheist organisation for children", they would just say:"organisation for children". Whereas a religious one will usually reference his beliefs to gain converts.

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Along those lines, Johns-Hopkins Hospital was established in part because of religious issues at hospitals. That is, most hospitals of the time were financed by religious organizations. Good in general, but it often meant that you got a dose of religion along with your care.Johns-Hopkins was established, in part, to provide a non-sectarian medical facility.

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

ICANT writes:

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Mankind is hardwired with the knowledge of good and evil

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Ooh! We're back to one of those questions I always ask and never get an answer to:Beetaratagang or clerendipity?One is good, one is evil. You, ICANT, who have "hardwired knowledge" of good and evil, surely know which is which. So which is it?Beetaratagang or clerendipity?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Taz writes:

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According to Asimov, different robots would develop different personalities through experiences. But their beings always operate under these 3 laws while some other laws may be added later on.

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Are you suggesting that we all started out with the same basic moral structures and as time goes on people develop new moral ideas based on their varying experiences?

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The thing is, ICANT doesn't agree with his own god's direct statements about what is good and what is evil. Of course, god can't seem to figure it out for himself, either. This leads to a problem:If not even god knows what is good and what is evil, how are we mere mortals supposed to know?

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Rrhain

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Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Atheism is also increasing in Canada.
This link goes to an excellent site - Menu: Religious makeup of Canada:The Canadian census has questions about religious affiliation.
Results for "Atheists, Agnostics , Humanists, no religion, etc."
1981 7.4%
1991 12.3%
2001 16.2%Canadians, in general, are not as religious as our American neighbours.
For example -
Importance of God in one's life (1..10)
5 or less (low importance) USA 13% Canada 31%
9 or 10 (high importance) USA 68% Canada 41%In general, atheists probably have fewer problems in Canada.The following link points out more religion differences between the USA & Canada:
Barack Obama's Religious Beliefs and Background

Hi Taz, I am not suggesting, I have declared God wrote His laws in our minds and gave Scripture reference where God said He did.Humans have to learn, then cultivate bad things in their life.A baby will learn very early in life to lie. He/she cries when wet, and hungry.When that happens someone changes his diaper or feeds him/her.He learns that when he/she cries someone will pick them up. So they begin to lie just to get you to pick them up.They can be bawling their eye balls out, not a tear in sight, you pick them up and they hush immediately. He is not wet or hungry just wanting you to pick him/her up.That nature (natural man) is then cultivated by what our parents, peers, teachers, and religious leaders teach us.Then we get to the point we decide what is right and what is wrong.We have then arrived at the place the serpent told Eve would obtain by eating the fruit and become as God knowing good and evil.Without God laws of morality there is no reason for morality to exist.I think Gould said it best in, "In the Mind of the Beholder", when he stated that "no factual discovery of science can, in principle, lead us to ethical conclusions, or to convictions about intrinsic meaning."God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi oni, Sure.Wouldn't you agree that your conclusions are based upon what you have learned over your life span so far? Exactly.Many choose otherwise because they have been taught there is no God.Most choose otherwise because they don't want to be under any authority other than their own. This includes most who claim to be christian.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

There is no God that has attempted to make me aware of any laws of morality. And I do not accept what other humans have told me are God's laws, they don't seem to make any sense.
Yet... I still have plenty of reasons for my morality to exist, many of them much more important and valid than "they come from a God." Whoever pushes the idea that a reason or purpose is "better" simply because it is externally provided is ridiculous in the extreme. Such a notion is very immature and only reduces humans to unthinking zombies.
I am positive that you are mistaken. Sounds good to me.
I don't get any of my morality from science.
I certainly don't get any of my morality from a God.
I wonder why you even proposed this quote, since it's rather obvious that morality does not have to come from either religion or science... such a quote seems rather extraneous. I was never taught there was no God.
In fact, I was always taught that there was a God. I don't mind being under another's authority. I participate in groups and under hierarchies all the time.So where do I stand?Isn't it possible for someone to honestly want God to reach out to them, but He doesn't?
This is what I constantly do, and I constantly get nothing as a result. Obviously, then, God is either unwilling or unable to reach out to me.
Isn't it possible for someone to learn on their own, after an honest search for truth, that God likely doesn't exist because all information about Him is indistinguishable from human imagination?
That's what I did.
Isn't it possible for an atheist's morality to exist without following the scientific method or religious ideas?
My morality exists as such.
Isn't it possible to have a reason for this morality that is greater than that provided by an external God?
I have many such reasons.

Hi ICANT, WOW! I hope you don't have children because you obviously don't know the first thing about meeting the needs of a child.I hope that you do realize that infants need more that just feeding and diapering. They need love and affection just as much as being fed and having a dry diaper.When they cry out to be held they aren't lying! They are crying to have their need for love met. They need to know that they're secure and that there is someone there for them.They need this love and sense of security because they are human and humans are social animals.What happens when we aren't good to others? What happens if we always act like self centered picks? No one likes to be around an asshole! Trust me!So experience (NOT GOD) will show us that it's a good idea to be mindful of the needs of others (act morally) or no one is going to like you and damn sure, no one is going to love you. And being loved is a real human need, isn't it?NO GOD REQUIRED! Edited by SammyJean, : Spelling

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You can choose a ready guide in some celestial voice.
If you choose not to decide you still have made a choice.
You can choose from phantom fears and kindness that can kill.
I will choose a path thats clear, I will choose free will. - Neil Peart"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
~ Gerry Spence

I disagree. Take it from one who spent years in both subordinate & supervisory positions, that is the US Army. I find no conflict with authority as long as the superior is qualified for the position. I also find no conflict with asking the authority figure to explain an order that is either vague or seemingly illegal such as an order to kill all the people in a village including women, children & the elderly which have no military importance. What I resent is misuse of authority.

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There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

Hi ICANT, Cool Sure, my conclusions are from what I've learned but, they are rational.However, no matter what I may conclude I would be wrong in my conclusion if my conclusions are shown to be wrong. What about everyone else? Those who do not fit into those 2 catagories. Those who were NOT taught that there is no god, and those who do NOT have this ego-centric complex that you describe as "living under their own authority", what about them?Or is humanity that generalized?I asked you if a child knows right from wrong or is he taught that by his parents, who was also taugh that by their parents, and so on.Say a child born in a tribe where no god(s) are spoken of, is the child born knowing right from wrong, or, do these concepts have to be taught at the social level?- Oni

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"I smoke pot. If this bothers anyone, I suggest you look around at the world in which we live and shut your mouth."--Bill Hicks"I never knew there was another option other than to question everything"--Noam Chomsky

Hi oni, He/she is born with the knowledge of good and evil.If left alone he/she will decide what is right and what is wrong.But can be taught anything, which will overshadow and eventually overwrite that knowledge and replace it.Then he/she will decide what is right and wrong by what they have learned.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Have you ever heard of feral children? These are children who, for whatever reason, are raised in the wild, sometimes veen by a different species of animal. They don't "know" right from wrong, their behaviors are learned from their environment.Quite honestly, I can't understand how you can hold your position on this in the face of all the evidence that suggests our morals are mostly a learned behavior.