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Author Topic:   Reply Quote function button to be disabled
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 1 of 21 (29948)
01-22-2003 7:37 PM


I am going to disable the "reply quote" (quote entire message) function.

As I see it, the drawbacks much outweight the benifits.

Use of the "reply quote" results in (often much) redundant text (which adds to the server storage demands). Often this same text can be viewed by scrolling just up the page (is it the previous message?).

Also, far too often the use of the "reply quote" function results in UBB code errors, ranging from very minor to total messes. In the "total mess" situation, it is often difficult to determine who is saying what. And such "total messes" can be very difficult to repair.

Text can still be quoted. Just copy and paste from the quoted message. Use the UBB quote code - If you don't know how, see http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/PresentHTML.cgi?action=html&file=dBCodes.html&title=dBCodes

If Admin (aka Percy) disagrees with this discision, he is (of course) certainly welcome to reinstate the "reply quote" function. At this point I am finding it much more practical to have to ask for forgiveness, rather than asking for permission for making such changes.

Adminnemooseus

Added by edit: As it sits right now, the "reply quote" button will remain on the now existing messages - I leave it to Admin to do what is needed to reset the situation on the older messages.
------------------
{mnmoose@lakenet.com}

[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 01-22-2003]


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Adminnemooseus, posted 06-19-2003 12:37 PM Adminnemooseus has responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 2 of 21 (43429)
06-19-2003 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Adminnemooseus
01-22-2003 7:37 PM


Bump
Just a bump, for the newer members here. See message 1.

Cheers,
(Ad)Moose


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 3 of 21 (51701)
08-21-2003 9:36 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Adminnemooseus
06-19-2003 12:37 PM


There has been a question about this
As said in previous message - Just a bump, for the newer members here. See message 1.

I don't have message 1 right in front of me at the moment, but I believe I might have been a bit light in explaining some of the problems.

The biggest problem with the "reply quote" button, was when members would edit the quotation into smaller blocks of quotes and replys. If the UBB code wasn't done right (and it often wasn't), you'd end up with a big mess, where it was very hard to tell who was saying what.

Adminnemooseus

------------------
Comments on moderation procedures? - Go to
Change in Moderation?
or
too fast closure of threads


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 4 of 21 (89323)
02-28-2004 9:20 PM


The matter of the "reply quote" function button has come up at www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=76&m=9#9 -->www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=76&m=9#9">http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=76&m=9#9, so I thought I'd give this topic a bump.

The "Reply Quote" function button was disabled on 1/22/03. We had some really big messes happening (see upstring).

Since has grown considerably, in size and chaos, since then, I would expect that these mess problems would return even worse, if the "Reply Quote" function button was re-enabled.

Perhaps I'll try to get back, with some links to some of these messes.

Cheers,
Adminnemooseus


Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 5 of 21 (89345)
02-28-2004 11:59 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Adminnemooseus
02-28-2004 9:20 PM


Responding to Buzsaw
Buzsaw, from http://http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=45&m=25#25:
quote:
Thanks for responding to my missplaced post on this subject. I will respond in this thread where I should have entered my post so as not to further disrupt the other thread.

I know what you're saying. Where this is used I've seen multiple long repetitive quotes, often by the same thoughtless user clutter up a thread and waste threadband.

I like your idea as stated. Could the quote button possibly be placed in a separate area of the post accompanied with a short message to the effect that users of this button do so at the risk of being censored if improperly or abusively used? .....Or even accompanied by a link for users to read before using this option for the first time?


Buz, you're getting closer to the right topic. Seriously, nice try.

Anyhow, this is the "Reply with Quote" topic.

The "Reply with Quote" messes are tought to control. Just like topic drift, it can get out of hand before a moderator can catch it.

Some of the messes of the past, which would happen again, would call for such extreme moderator editing that it would be contrary to the strong general policy of "no moderator editing for content".

It is easy enough to copy and paste the entire message you are replying to, and to then break it down into smaller quote bites. Personally (and there is another topic on this), I find the messages that contain alternating lines of quotes and replies to be very annoying (although I guess it's not as bad as a bunch of quote within quote within quote nestings).

My personal recomendation, is that the "Reply with Quote" button continues to be disabled.

Cheers,
Adminnemooseus (running in the babble mode)

ADDED BY EDIT: Actually, Admin/Percy does have a good discussion of the situation, at that other topic. That message can be found at http://http://www.evcforum.net/cgi-bin/dm.cgi?action=msg&f=19&t=45&m=11#11

ADDED BY 2ND EDIT: At the message 11, Admin said this:

quote:
It might be appropriate to try an experiment. Messages are checked for improperly used UBB codes, and in the preview UBB errors are indicated in red. The software could be modified so as not to post any messages with UBB code errors. If members are willing to accept this change, then it might be reasonable to try re-enabling the "reply w/quote" button.

I think the above proposed might work, at least to prevent some of the problems. Your message won't post, if it has any UBB code errors.

[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-29-2004]

[This message has been edited by Adminnemooseus, 02-29-2004]


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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8789
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 6 of 21 (89351)
02-29-2004 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Adminnemooseus
02-28-2004 11:59 PM


UBB errors
[qs]I think the above proposed might work, at least to prevent some of the problems. Your message won't post, if it has any UBB code errors.[/q]s

I, , like that idea.


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3810
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 7 of 21 (614046)
05-01-2011 12:00 AM


The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
Note that this topic originated in January of 2003.

Admin/Percy restored the availability of the rquote button earlier this year (or was it late last year?).

Somewhere else (currently not found), I've comment on a few examples of the quote box structures getting fouled up because of coding and/or coding editing errors. These foul ups have been surprisingly rare and minor, relative to the messes which originally resulted in the reply with quote function button getting disabled.

That said, it does seem that excessive material is being quoted, and/or the quoting is being badly presented. Not to pick on Tram law, but my current example resides here. Tram quoted the entire message (from 2 messages up), while only the very tail end of the quoted was relevant to the reply.

So, I ask, reply with quote button - Good thing or bad thing? My impression is that things were better without it.

Adminnemooseus


Please be familiar with the various topics and other links in the "Essential Links", found in the top of the page menu. Amongst other things, this is where to find where to report various forum problems.
Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5530
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 8 of 21 (614047)
05-01-2011 12:05 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Adminnemooseus
05-01-2011 12:00 AM


Re: The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
So, I ask, reply with quote button - Good thing or bad thing? My impression is that things were better without it.

I agree with you. The forum was better without it.

However, I also agree that effects of having the quote button were not as bad as I had expected. So I'm expressing my preference, but I can live with the decision either way.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12519
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 9 of 21 (614060)
05-01-2011 6:48 AM


Did you know...
For those of us who remember a time before home versions of microwaves and computers and before DVRs even existed (my mother grew up in western Canada in a house with no electricity or plumbing, and she rode in a small horse-drawn wagon with her sister to school everyday) it can seem incredible that we begrudge ourselves even a few extra key clicks, but such is the situation we find ourselves in.

One click on reply w/quote can save a few key clicks, but unless edited down it's way overkill in most cases, it's difficult to fix when misedited, and abuse seems impossible to prevent. I suspect it might be going away soon, so I offer this "Did you know..."

Did you know that you can select text in your browser window and drag and drop it into a message box? Well you can! Try it, you'll like it!

It's even better than that - you can drag and drop selected text, even links, from any window directly to your message box.

One frequently requested feature is the ability to click on buttons to add codes to your message box. There would be buttons for bold, italic, quotes, etc. Clicking on them would add the open/close codes at the cursor location, and if text were already selected in the message box then it would be embraced in those codes. This is on my list of things to do, but as I keep saying, I'm just one guy.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

    
jar
Member
Posts: 29147
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 10 of 21 (614061)
05-01-2011 8:20 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Adminnemooseus
05-01-2011 12:00 AM


Re: The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
I like the feature, and the only problem I see is the users need education.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15646
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 11 of 21 (614064)
05-01-2011 8:51 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by jar
05-01-2011 8:20 AM


Re: The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
I like creationists, and the only problem I see is the adherents need education.

--Percy


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5765
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005


Message 12 of 21 (614074)
05-01-2011 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Adminnemooseus
05-01-2011 12:00 AM


vote against
I think I have used it twice and once was as an example for someone. The forum worked better without it, because people would only copy relevant text. Now we get irrelevant text included also.
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 21 (614099)
05-01-2011 7:57 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Percy
05-01-2011 8:51 AM


Re:Content Delete
Off topic content deleted by Buzsaw with my apologies.

Edited by Buzsaw, : Delete content


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The Immeasurable Present Eternally Extends the Infinite Past And Infinitely Consumes The Eternal Future.
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Percy
Member
Posts: 15646
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 14 of 21 (614100)
05-01-2011 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Buzsaw
05-01-2011 7:57 PM


Re: The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
Uh, Buz, I was making a humorous comment by mimicking Jar's comment to make the opposite point. I wasn't trying to change the topic.

Everyone, I apologize for trying to be funny and thereby giving Buz yet another opportunity to yank a thread off-topic. This thread is about the reply w/quote button, not about education or indoctrination.

--Percy


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jar
Member
Posts: 29147
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 15 of 21 (614101)
05-01-2011 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Percy
05-01-2011 8:24 PM


Re: The state of the reply with quote (rquote) button
And I acknowledged your post, laughed at it and wished I'd written it.

But I still believe that some folk will be able to misuse whatever tools you provide.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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