The Barbarity of Christianity (as compared to Islam)

Just for the record and the sake of those who may not have read the original thread, I took exception to Faith's comments such as Historically, Islam has been a religion of tolerance, while Christianity has been just the opposite, a religion of Intolerence.As a Christian, I believe that we need to realize this failing in our Faith, and to work towards making Christianity more tolerant. Christianity has a long history of simply destroying other cultures and religions and in legally mandating either conversion, expulsion or death. Its internal wars and conflicts have been as violent as any seen in the Islamic world, and have continued from the very beginning, when Constantine made Christianity the State Religion right down to the sectarian violence in Ireland of recent memory.Some examples:

• when the conquistadors arrived in South America they burned all of the religious tracts they found and outlawed the practice of any religion except Christianity.
• North American Indian children were forced from their homes, their clothing changed, hair cut, language forbidden and the Christian religion forced upon them.
• Jews were expelled from England in 1290 under the Edict of Expulsion. They were barred from the Isles until the mid 1600s.
• in the 1400s all Jews were expelled from Spain. Interestingly, it was the Islamic world that opened its arms to them, even sending fleets of ships to take them back to the Islamic world and providing them with homes and opportunity.
• Jews were required throughout Europe to live in Ghettos, and were restricted in what positions or emplyment they could hold.
• throughout the Christian World, witches were killed, usually through burning.
• as far back as 1215, the Fourth Council of the Lateran required that Jews wear identifying marks or clothes.
• the Crusades which were attempts to redirect internal violence towards a non-aggressive outside neighbor.
• a continuing practice of outlawing other religions such as the banning of the old ways that happened in Hawaii.
• the Wars of the Reformation including the Peasants War which began in 1524 and on through the Thirty Years War.
• the four Great Inquistions beginning with the Middle Ages Inquisition of 1184.

Faith's own post, which begins this message, is yet another example of the intolerance of many Christians. In her post, she describes the heart of Islam to be barbarity, even though the historical facts do not support her assertion.If Christianity is ever to live up to the calling of being Christ-like, we, as Christian, must recongnize that in the past, Christianity has been brutal and intolerant and that even today, many Christian sects are continuing the tradition of intolerance and oppression.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

We don't have much information about the first few centuries of Christianity, so there is little we can say with authority about that period. In addition, until it was adopted as the official religion of the State by Constantine, it was but another of the minor religious sects out there and so pretty much incapable of oppressing anyone.As to the second part of your statemnt, whether it exists today, I also demonstrated that the practices of intolerance continue today. The late troubles in Ireland, Faith's very own words and examples like the attempts to oppress segments of the American population that continue today support my contention.The rest of your post relating to Islamic practices are pointless and off topic anyway. This thread is not about whether or not some other religion sucks, it's about Christianity, and historically, Christianity has been about the most violent, intolerant force on earth.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Not at all. Of course, he was not a Christian, but rather a nice Jewish boy.The Map is not the Territory randman. The question is whether or not Christianity as it has been practiced down through the ages is at all Christ-like. And sadly, history and compemporary life, say that the answer is a resounding "No!"

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Is burning someone at the stake Christ-like?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I think I know what being Christ-like is because I am a Christian.Now answer this.Is burning someone at the stake Christ-like?

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, I am not Christianity. I am but one Christian, and I am trying to reform the religion. No, not at all. Christiantity is not Christ. It is not false Christianity that is evil, but Christianity as being practiced by many Christians. For example, the current attempt to oppress many Americans as found in the Defence of Marriage Act is an example of Christian Intolerance. The quote from Faith is an example of Christian Intolerance.These beople are not False Christians, I imagine they believe they are the true Christians. That is the problem.Until we, as Christians recognize the bad that Christianity does, we cannot fix it. Jesus is not part of Christianity. The Map is not the Territory. Religion is a creation of humans. Jesus is the Territory. Christianity is but the Map.Until we, as Christians, recognize those things we do that are not Christ-like, where we are being intolerant and oppressive, we cannot change Christianity.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

No, I do not say that true Christianity is Christ-like. I do not split Christianity into subgroups. There is only Christianity.What I say is that Christianity should be Christ-like.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But buz, it was not just the popes and bishops of Vatican City. The Protestants were every bit as violent and intolerant as the Roman Catholics. The Puritans and Pilgrims were violent and intolerant. The missionaries in the US that destroyed the Native American culture were violent and intolerant. Today's protestant evangelical ministers like Pat Robertson are violent and intolerant. The people that call Islam barbaric are intolerant and violent. The Christians today that support oppressing homosexuals are showing the same violence and intolerance.Christianity has been, and remains, a very intolerant religion.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

I agree with all that you say. But there is still so much that we do not know, or rather where there are hints that there is something to know but the information is missing; lost or purged.On the subject of behavior though, particularly of violence and oppression, there was little that Christianity could do as long as it was a tiny sect in a backwater provence of a Great Power. It was only when Christianity became the power that it had the capability to be a problem.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, you can point that out. It would not be true though.As I pointed out, many of the instances came long after the Bible was readily available in the Vulgate and are continuing even today.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

But the History of Christianity says something different. Christians killing in the name of God has been the norm for Christianity.This message has been edited by jar, 02-18-2006 02:43 PM

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Yes, there are those that claim the Roman Catholic Church is not Christian. As I've said, that's just a cop out.But the Christian Church, particularly the Evangelicals and Fundamentalists today are the oppressors, oppressing those they consider different, for examples the homosexuals that want basic human rights.As a Christian, I have a duty to speak out when my Church, the Christian Faith is being used to harm others. Evil in the name of GOD is still evil and it is still the act of Christians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Certainly they are Christains. For example, those that follow Dobson and Focus on the Family are Christians, yet they also behave as bigots and oppressors when they try to deny basic human rights to a segment of the population. Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell are Christians even though they preach hate and intolerance. Jim Bakker is a Christian even though he stole from his parish. Fred Phelps is a Christian even though he preaches intolerance and says that those folk killed in Iraq are punishment from GOD.Granted they are disgusting people, but they are still Christians.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

That's correct. The folk I mentioned are leaders in the Christian community. I agree.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion

Please provide quotes where I have said that Christianity is evil, and link to the exact post so that we can see them in contexxt. If you cannot do so then retract your assertion.What I have said is that historically Christianity has been barbaric and intolerant. As a Christian it is my duty to recognize and acknowledge those failures. To pretend that those acts, and the acts happening even today, are not committed by Christians, to claim that some group is "not real Christians" would be just dishonest. The actions today of Christians, the YEC movement, the Biblical Creationists, the IDists, those opposing human rights for homosexuals, those opposing stem cell research funding, those who are gutting our science programs and incouraging wilfull ignorance are as intolerant and bigoted as were the Christians that expelled the Jews from Europe time after time, that destroyed the civilizations of the Americas, that stole the land of others.I have not said that Christianity is evil. I have on many times said that I believe it is a beautiful and worthy regligion. But that does not mean it is without flaws. And if we wish to take credit for those things we consider wonderful, we must also take responsibility for those things that we find horrific.

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Aslan is not a Tame Lion