Origins of the Judeo-Christian god and religion

In some of the other threads about Islam the origins of the judeo-christian god and religion were also discussed.I am not an expert on the subject, but I have been able to find some material out there and will do some more research. I'd be interested in what some of our members who might be more familiar with ancient history have to say on this subject.From answers.comAnswers about Judaism and for kids!!! hehehePage not found - History for Kids and more: I would love to read more on this and see what scholars think about the origins of the judeo-christian god (and really monotheism in general). It seems that people's polytheistic beliefs evolved into monotheism.

This is intended to be a discussion of the history of the religion and not it's dogma, other than how that dogma arose. I am interested in how juadiam (and thus xtianity) came to be monotheistic and what the origins of the their concept of god was.I don't think the bible needs to be off limits, but it should only be used to illustrate what judaism believed. I'm interested as to where the ideas in the bible came from, so it's not for use as evidence (if that makes sense)

I wonder why that is...... We already know that some events in the bible simply did not occur (the flood) or probably did not occur (exodus).Humanity existed before the bible and we have evidence/records/etc. of cultures that pre-date the bible significantly. So there was a point in human civilization where judaism simply did not exist and no one worshipped that particular god(s).The interest here is how did they evolve their concept of god and where did it come from? How did they come to hold their beliefs?We have some of the pieces, but you are right that there aren't a ton of written records from that era.

Arach,I just wanted to thank you for some really interesting additions to this thread. I am really learning a lot from some of your posts.It makes me wonder how much interpretation (as opposed to translation) has been done to the bible over the years.I have always wondered how the jews came to their beliefs and what they believed before the bible appeared, etc. I'm starting to see some of the pieces fall into place here.

Anti-supernaturalist? i.e. someone who doesn't believe in fairy tales?We are discussing history here. We have records and proof of civilizations that existed long before anyone had ever heard of the bible or judaism. These are facts.The bible is NOT A HISTORICAL DOCUMENT (although there are sections that probably depict some actual history). However, there are also sections that are obvious fiction (the flood comes to mind). The bible is subject to criticism and analysis just like any other literary work.The question here is how did the jewish beliefs arise..... and you bring up adam? Adam and eve is obvious fiction and has nothing to do with history. Adam and eve is as real as the odyssey... and I haven't seen any talking serpents or any cyclops.This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 05-02-2006 08:44 PM

The problem is if we start treating the bible as a historical document we also have to consider that the odyssey, the illad, etc. etc are also historical documents. Also, beowulf, etc. etc.In any case, this thread is about where the ideas in the bible came from, not those ideas themselves.

No Faith, YOU can't learn about the bible by looking outside it. On the other hand, many of us actually are very interested in the study of history, archaeology, etc and have learned a lot that way. Please don't assume your own ignorance applies to others. I don't think it's your place to tell me or anyone else that we can't study a subject in a certain way. Many scholars have learned a lot by studying the origins of the bible; and many of them are believers.There were many civilizations before the bible was written. Therefore it is an undeniable fact that the bible was written by men and those stories did in fact come from somewhere. Now, do I think people made them up? YEs, as a matter of fact. However, you could say they were divinely inspired; which isn't entirely unreasonable.This message has been edited by AdminJar, 05-02-2006 09:24 PM

So the idea here was to discuss what beliefs the jewish people (who may have been called something else at the time) held before they adopted the jewish faith and began to follow the bible. Also, to discuss where their concept of god came from and where some of the ideas in the bible originated.This isn't a discussion about the bible as history, but more a history of how the bible and the beliefs in it came about and what beliefs preceeded them.

The population that became the jewish people existed before the bible did. In fact these people existed before the jewish faith did. These are undeniable facts. Irrelevant. Who said anything about characters in a book? I'm talking about the history of a group of people and their beliefs. I'm NOT talking about characters in a book who may or may not have existed. We have learned plenty from researchers about ancient peoples like these. Including people who lived long before anyone had ever heard of yahweh or the bible. You need to stop making ignorant assertions. Just because you are unable to learn or understand things does not mean others are. You are also off topic The subject is what beliefs the "jewish people" (and yes, they may have been called a different name) held before the advent of the bible and rise of the mono/heno - theistic jewish faith. In other words; how did these beliefs evolve?Is there something you don't understand about this topic? You keep spouting nonsense about how we can't learn anything except through the bible when this is clearly not the case. If you can't contribute anything on topic you should probably give this thread a rest.

Um, so they just sprang into existence spontaneously?I don't understand what you are saying? There have been humans on earth for 10s or 100s of thousands of years. The jewish people are descended from some of these humans. At some point they adopted the jewish faith.I'm getting my information from known facts about the planet earth.Humans have existed for far longer than the jewish faith has.There is certainly archeological evidence to help us learn more about hte jewish people. The bible can also help us learn more about them since it is one of their literary works.It would be interesting to know how long some of the stories in the bible were told before they were written down and from which groups the various stories came from.

Repeat after me SLOWLY.... The bible IS NOT A HISTORICAL DOCUMENT.There are parts that may have some historical accuracy, but much of the contents are just stories and myths.This thread is about where those myths and stories came from and how the jewish faith evolved.Is it revisionist history to think that adam and eve and the garden of eden simply did not exist?I simply accept the facts of human history as we know them.

Revisionist history? Um, no... It's regular history just like the history of every other period. Can historians learn a lot by studying the bible? Sure they can; in the same way they can learn a lot by studying the odyssey or the illiad.I'm not saying the bible is all fables and stories, there is certainly some history in there.... and even the things that are ancient myths can give good insight into the people that wrote them.

and more importantly rick... it's not dogma! I'm sure there are a lot of things we still don't know about the ancient jewish people and probably some things that researchers got wrong. Our knowledge is always uncertain and changing.Heck, maybe they will find evidence for more of the things in the bible some day and we will come to treat other parts as history that we didn't know were history before.I think I came on a little too strong. The bible is certainly not useless when studying these people, but it must be treated like any other form of evidence.This message has been edited by SuperNintendo Chalmers, 05-04-2006 10:03 AM

So let's say this abraham existed... He had parents too and I'm sure they held some of beliefs as did his grandparents, great-grandparents,... great-great-great-great-great-great-etc. grandparents.There were civilizations around when this guy supposedly lived and I would assume he was a member of one.So even if Abraham existed his family going way back would have been members of various other cultures which through him evolved into judaism.

Interesting....So this is the history from the point of view of the bible.Thanks for the post.Of course an intersting subject would be, "What came first? The Bible or the religion?"Thanks for the biblical history.I would love to compare/contrast this with what we know from archeological history, and this would probably be a good way to move the thread forward.Thanks for the post