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Author Topic:   Is Science a Religion?
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 27 of 313 (381425)
01-30-2007 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Open MInd
01-30-2007 10:14 PM


Re: Defining religion
In my opinion, it is impossible for one to exclude himself from "the subject of religion." Whatever is your opinion of the universe, whether you believe in the supernatural or you just believe in pure science, you have just made a religious opinion.
Absolute nonsense.
First, as you have been told, no one believes in Science. People accept the Scientific Method as a conclusion based on its success history and reproducibility.
Third, as has been pointed out to you, many people are Theists and also accept the Scientific Method and the results it has provided.
Second, the big difference between Science and any religion is that Science NEVER has the final Answer and is always ready to throw away anything when new evidence shows it is incorrect.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Open MInd, posted 01-30-2007 10:14 PM Open MInd has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Quetzal, posted 01-31-2007 7:31 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 31 of 313 (381492)
01-31-2007 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Quetzal
01-31-2007 7:31 AM


Re: Defining religion
Yes. Much better wording.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Quetzal, posted 01-31-2007 7:31 AM Quetzal has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 35 of 313 (381546)
01-31-2007 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Open MInd
01-31-2007 4:12 PM


Re: Why must the teapot be a religion, anyway?
As for your statement that scientist are not all godless, why is it that Evolution is completely undisputed among the scientist. Surely you agree that the idea that human beings evolved from other forms of life clashes with almost every religion.
First, Evolution certainly doesn't clash with Christianity. I am a Christian and yet have no problems accepting Evolution (since that is a fact and not even open to question anymore) or that the Theory of Evolution is the best possible explanation so far for what the evidence shows.
Nor am I alone. Evolution is not an issue among any Christians except those in the Cult of Ignorance.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Open MInd, posted 01-31-2007 4:12 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 45 of 313 (381563)
01-31-2007 5:01 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Open MInd
01-31-2007 3:21 PM


Science seems more ethical than Religion
Maybe, the reason why science is such a popular religion is because it has no rules or customs.
Actually science as a profession certainly DOES have rules and customs. One is honesty, something that seems to be woefully lacking in religion.
In Science, if someone is caught falsifying data, even if they are only shown to be ignoring data that might falsify their position, they WILL be sanctioned.
That simply is not seen in Religion in general and specifically in Christianity. Christianity as a profession, does not sanction all of the pastors and clergy who regularly falsify data as well as ignore data that falsifies their position. Christians do not sanction and punish all the Televangelists and Pastors that deny Evolution, hide the evidence that shows the flood never happened, that the Exodus never happened, that the Conquest of Canaan never happened as described in the Bible.
Unfortunately, it does seem that on the whole, Science is far more ethical than Religion.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Open MInd, posted 01-31-2007 3:21 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 53 of 313 (381604)
01-31-2007 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by Open MInd
01-31-2007 7:45 PM


Typical Christian reading problem?
The question you have to ask yourself is how much do you involve yourself in science and how religious are you? Many people on this board claim to be religious and scientific. I challenge you people who claim to be religious and scientific. How much do you really believe in your religion? Did you contact your religious leader before you decided to study science? If you do study religion and you are a firm believer in your religion, how much do you really believe in your science? It is obvious that one can not truly believe in his religion and firmly believe in science.
You know you are showing all the signs of being a member of the Christian Cult of Ignorance. Big time member. Likely you are right up there in ignorance with so many of todays Christian Pastors.
You have already been told that folk do not "believe" in Science.
You have also been told that Science, including the Theory of Evolution is not a problem for Christianity, only for the Christian Cult of Ignorance.
In the words of the Clergy Letter, one signed by over 10,000 US Christian Clergy:
We the undersigned, Christian clergy from many different traditions, believe that the timeless truths of the Bible and the discoveries of modern science may comfortably coexist. We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris.
Please understand Open MInd, if you think there is a problem accepting Science along with Christianity you are just plain ignorant.
But worry not. Ignorance is easily cured by learning. It is even fun to actually exercise your mind for the first time.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Open MInd, posted 01-31-2007 7:45 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 63 of 313 (381732)
02-01-2007 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 8:53 PM


There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
Repeat after me.

There is NO conflict between Science and Christianity, between the Theory of Evolution and Christianity or the Old Universe and Christianity.


Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 8:53 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by subbie, posted 02-01-2007 9:12 PM jar has not replied
 Message 68 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:40 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 70 of 313 (381767)
02-01-2007 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:40 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
First of all I don't know why you consider me a Christian. I never told anyone on this board what I believe in. I may truly be a scientist. Secondly, I am not coming to defend the Christian faith or dIspute it. All I do know is, there are many different oppinions in the Christian faith, and I did not see anything in your quote that resolves science with any other religion.
Too funny. The old dancing Gish Gallop.
It does not matter what religion (if any) you are. It's patently obvious that you know nothing about science and even less about Christianity at the least.
How ever there is NOTHING in Science that conflicts with any religion.
You've been told this many times.
Science does not address the supernatural.
It really is as simple as that.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:40 PM Open MInd has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:53 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 72 of 313 (381777)
02-01-2007 9:57 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Open MInd
02-01-2007 9:53 PM


Re: There is no conflict between Christianity and Science
You have just simply ignored all of my points. You seem to think that a religion requires a supernatural being. This is not true. You seem to think that science has not made up anything; however, I have already showed you how the gravitational "force" is a completely made up concept. The idea that anything with a mass carries an attractive force sounds as supernatural as any other religious belief.
And you have also been told that is just ONE current explanation for Gravity and even those are held tentatively.
It has also been shown that it is NOT something made up but rather simply a description of what is observed.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Open MInd, posted 02-01-2007 9:53 PM Open MInd has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 100 of 313 (382043)
02-02-2007 10:43 PM
Reply to: Message 97 by Rob
02-02-2007 9:47 PM


Re: Yes... science is a religion
Does anyone really not understand what I just said? Or are you determined to deny everything, even at the expense of your own reputation as an intelligent and honest participant, in a debate that has extreme consequences for all humanity?
What you said is nonsense, we understand it fully. It is also totally irrelevant, unimportant and inane.
There is no evidence of a designer or of anything being designed.
Sorry, perhaps when someone finally produces some such evidence that stands up to scientific rigor it can be considered.
Until then science simply takes no position.
Man evolved.
That is fact.
You or I or anyone else is still free to hold a position of belief. We may even believe that GOD directed the world we see around us. That is irrelevant to science. Science simply investigates the HOW of what happened and what will happen.
If we believe GOD did it, science only tells us How God Did It.
But that is a belief. That is all. A belief.
And the consequences of not holding that belief?
None.
Absolutely none.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 97 by Rob, posted 02-02-2007 9:47 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 101 by Rob, posted 02-02-2007 11:43 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 108 of 313 (382091)
02-03-2007 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Rob
02-02-2007 11:43 PM


More off topic non-responses from Rob.
No one has denied there are absolutes.
The rest of your post is just off topic nonsense.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Rob, posted 02-02-2007 11:43 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 10:44 AM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 111 of 313 (382103)
02-03-2007 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 110 by Rob
02-03-2007 10:44 AM


Re: More off topic non-responses from Rob.
Well what you posted in Message 101 was not simply wrong, off topic and inane, it was yet another example of the dishonesty of so many Christians like yourself.
In Message 101 you posted:
jar:
Man evolved.
That is fact.
And the consequences of not holding that belief?
None.
Absolutely none.
Now that's funny!
which appears as though you are actually quoting me when in fact, you were quotemining, taking things I said out of context.
What I actually said can be seen by all in Message 100.
Just so all the readers will see the total bankruptcy of you as a proponent of Christianity or even basic morality, here is that message in toto.
From Message 100
What you said is nonsense, we understand it fully. It is also totally irrelevant, unimportant and inane.
There is no evidence of a designer or of anything being designed.
Sorry, perhaps when someone finally produces some such evidence that stands up to scientific rigor it can be considered.
Until then science simply takes no position.
Man evolved.
That is fact.
You or I or anyone else is still free to hold a position of belief. We may even believe that GOD directed the world we see around us. That is irrelevant to science. Science simply investigates the HOW of what happened and what will happen.
If we believe GOD did it, science only tells us How God Did It.
But that is a belief. That is all. A belief.
And the consequences of not holding that belief?
None.
Absolutely none.
Your postings here at EvC have show a consistent inability to portray what others say with anything even close to honesty. I am sorry but that also seems a Characteristic of many Biblical Christians, particularly with those from the non-denominational Christian sects and Biblical Literalists.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 10:44 AM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 11:21 AM jar has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 129 of 313 (382187)
02-03-2007 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Rob
02-03-2007 6:00 PM


Ah the old Absolute Truth fiction pops up again.
I ain't buying it Ringo... If the purpose for asking questions is to find answers, then what conclusions have you reached that are true? What absolute truth did you discover?
LOL
There goes the Absolute Truth flyby again.
If you can not know for sure, then you can go on asking questions forever.
Good. You are finally getting it.
Yet once again, what the hell does any of your post have to do with the subject?
In case you have forgotten, the topic is "Is Science a Religion?"

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 6:00 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 6:30 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 137 of 313 (382201)
02-03-2007 7:06 PM
Reply to: Message 133 by Rob
02-03-2007 6:30 PM


Re: Ah the old Absolute Truth fiction pops up again.
You are acting as though that is a conclusion jar... But in defense of infinite questions?????
How can you know for sure that you can't know for sure?
More silly nonsense. Answers should always be questioned.
I'm sorry but Ravi reminds me far to much of Charley McCarthy.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Rob, posted 02-03-2007 6:30 PM Rob has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 189 of 313 (382355)
02-04-2007 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Rob
02-04-2007 12:30 PM


more off topic nonsense
Rob, do you EVERY plan on posting something that is on topic, makes any sense, is even close to being accurate or that has a point?
I realize asking for all of the above in one messsage may be too much but do you think maybe you can shoot for getting at least one of them in a message?
In case you have forgotten, the topic is "Is Science a Religion?"

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Rob, posted 02-04-2007 12:30 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 191 by Rob, posted 02-04-2007 1:04 PM jar has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 194 of 313 (382363)
02-04-2007 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Rob
02-04-2007 1:04 PM


Re: more off topic nonsense
Is that a question with an answer jar? Or have you already arrived at an absolute conclusion?
The question, "Is Science a Religion" has been answered with a high degree of confidence.
The Answer is, "No, Science is not a Religion."
Until a sufficient body of evidence is presented to challenge that conclusion it can be considered settled.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Rob, posted 02-04-2007 1:04 PM Rob has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 195 by Rob, posted 02-04-2007 1:17 PM jar has replied

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