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And of course the nonsensical furore over Wikipedia demonstrates again that attacking the messenger is to be condoned.

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The only one "not making sense" in the Wikipedia thread was you.Do you think there is shame in being wrong, contra?Is that why you dropped out of that Wikipedia discussion as soon as you were shown evidence that you were mistaken?

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And yet *I* am on the recieving end of this abuse.

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Contra, if anyone wanted a lesson on how to insult others, all they would have to do is peruse a few of the threads where you have been active. You sling invective and insult just about more than anyone else here.Your protests of "Oh, oh, poor me is getting insulted!" would perhaps carry more weight if you weren't usually the one starting the slinging.

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It is a complete sham, while racist attacks are ignored.

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Yeah, it really is a big sham.I don't even know why you hang around because everybody is so fake.

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I am asking the moderators to get their act together, behave consistently, and to refrain from indulging in the same abuses they claim to condemn.

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And what happens if we never do better than we are right now?Are you going to volunteer to be a moderator?Maybe you could show us all how it's done?

Contra, let me explain something to you in perhaps wider terms than you have thought of it in the past.When you clearly violate the forum guidelines, numerous times, you have nothing but contempt and excuses and rationisations and criticism for the moderators when they tell you to stop. You seem to think that you don't ever do anything wrong, you never break the forum guidelines (or are justified because others do) and that all the insults you sling are justified.Then, when someone insults you, or maybe insults you, you complain bitterly about moderator inaction and unfair treatment.The message you are sending is that you want the moderators to let you flagrantly break as many forum guidelines as you want to but keep everyone else from so much as looking at you crosseyed.Perhaps if you didn't chronically ignore moderator requests to follow the guidelines you would get a better hearing from them.

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I responded appropriately to such allegations as were made.

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Contra, before I became a moderator, you and I had a very long conversation in which it took me at least 8 posts to get you to budge even a little tiny bit about the effectiveness of you calling someone a "fuckwit".Just what do you think "responding appropriately" is?

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I point out to you, again, that when you turn a blind eye to racism and Islamaphobia, or outright lies about certain political ideas, you yourself have abandoned the principled ground from which to launch this criticism. If you will not back up your espoused principles with action, why are you then surprised when others don't take your public piety seriously?

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Our moderation is not perfect, it's true.We aren't paid professionals, you know. This is a completely volunteer gig.What do you expect for a completely free site?Would you like to have a try at being a moderator yourself so you can show us perfection in action yourself?

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So what is it that you want exactly?

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Don't insult people. Don't freak out on people every 10 minutes. Adhere to rule #3 of the forum guidelines.That's what we want.

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You don't want me to respond myself,

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Yes, you can respond, but within the forum guidelines, including rule #3.That is all the forum moderators want, contra.Really.

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Responding appropriately is calling a spade a spade and a fuckwit a fuckwit.

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You can choose to violate rule #3, but as long as you understand the cosequences, it's all OK.The problem is, you moan and whinge about the consequences.Long term evidence of violation of the guidelines, a lack of productive contribution to discussion, and a tendency to bog down every thread a member participates are things that moderators monitor very carefully.

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No. It is precisely because I will make errors that I decline such positions.

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So, those of us who volunteer for this unpaid position should display perfection at all times?

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And IF you apply your principles consistently, that is what you will get.

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Are you expecting perfection from unpaid, volunteer imperfect human moderators?That is unreasonable, completely unreasonable.

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But as long as you do NOT apply your principles consistently - and lets recall, your argument here is tyo justify why you are NOT going to discipline Jar - then you have no basis to expect that.

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So, because moderation is not perfect, you get to be rude to people?Two wrongs DO make a right, I understand now!

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Live by the sword, die by the sword - you cannot claim to have guidelines and then ignore their violations merely because the violator is a moderator. If that is what the "guidelines" are for, then admit it.

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So, you DO expect moderators to be perfect, even though we are human, and this gig is completely volunteer.

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Prove it. This thread was raised as a complaint about an insulting and abusive post. Prove your principles by actually acting on them. Shit or get off the pot.

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Do you mean this abusive and insulting post?These were some of the indults in that one:"I have no reviewed the thread for the second time, and located clear evidence of RAZD's dishonesty""Recapaitulation of mating basics for kindergarten ommitted.""Of all the arrogant bullshit...""Play like an adult.""I suggest you actually review your own writings or acquire a reputation for lying deliberately."

Contra, you absolutely do very frequently come across as a commie agitator.Very much so.And it's not because Jar made that comment that I think this.I have thought that for years.You may think it is a stereotype, but there is a reason most stereotypes were "turned into" stereotypes in the first place.It's because there is a common characteristic within the members of a group.You often fit the description of a "commie agitator".

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Remember, these disputes are about the factual content of certain books - there IS no gray area in this matter. Insisting that it is an issue of "my opinion" is grossly absurd.

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LOL!!!You opinion of these books is the only one in the world that is correct, apparently.OK, I understand. LOL!

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And then, assuming that becuase I will not compromise on these matetrs of FACT and public record means I am fanatical is outright ridiculous.

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It is most definitely not at all true that you restrict yourself to the content of books in your disagreements with people.

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Well then you have been mistaken for years.

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No, it IS TRUE that I have frequently thought you have come across like a commie agitator.I think I am the expert about my own opinions in th this case.

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You are NOT living up to your guidelines. You are NOT behaving in an intellectually honest manner. You are culpable of dogmatically supporting the ignorant over the informed, and then holding a grudge against the informed becuase they caught you out. This is the behaviour of an adolescent, not an adult.

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Yeah.So, why do you bother to talk to me?Why do you bother to hang upot here at all if it's so terrible for you?This message has been edited by schrafinator, 05-05-2005 04:57 PM

LOL!"Anarchist", more like.Gosh, there a lot of people reading your post having some serious vicarious thrills.