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Member (Idle past 5908 days) Posts: 3435 From: Edmonton Alberta Canada Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Food for Noah's Ark survivors. | |||||||||||||||||||||||
Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I've used this one before. The response I got was that Gen 7:22 says "All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died." (italics mine).
So, the argument goes, plants etc weren't living, because they don't breath through their nostrils. Thus, the Bible doesn't say they died. Something like that. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I'm under the impression that much of the vegetation we see today is dependent upon the organisms that live in the soil. A creationist would no doubt point out that this may not have been the case with plants in Noah's day. It could have evolved since then as post-flood adaptation of the 'kinds' progressed. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
obvious Child writes: Plus many species such as Koalas and Giraffes only eat a specific type of leaf, usually a older leaf from specific types of plants. The time table here doesn't make sense I think they say that those dietary requirements are post-flood adaptations.
CreationWiki: Animals' exacting needs could have evolved after the flood "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
According to CreationScience.com (see here). It does completely ignore dilution via diffusion though.
quote: They've even done an experiment (read abstract here)
quote: "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
They could always fall back on this:
quote: Maybe it's a miracle? Edited by Doddy, : fixed citation "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
CreationWiki sources their info from here:
Woodmorappe, John, 1996. Noah's Ark: A Feasibility Study. Santee, CA: Institute for Creation Research, pp. 153-162 Also, a quick Google search reveals these pages:
Survival of Plants in the Flood How did fish and plants survive the flood? Chapter 14: Could fish and plants have survived? All of which say similar things. I'll quote the latter:
quote: Edited by Doddy, : fixed quote "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I would like to see more discussion on the idea of saline sensitivity being a post-flood adaptation. It seems like a blatant wishful thinking to me, but how would one refute this claim?
"Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
I've been thinking on this...and relearning all my plant biology.
You can't just seal the cell from water, because then it won't grow. So osmosis will be a factor. In order to prevent plasmolysis, the internal osmolality of the seed cells would need to be as high (or higher) than the salt concentration of the water. Initially I thought this would quickly cause cytolysis in fresh water, but then I remembered the cell wall would probably prevent that (as I said, I'm rusty on plant biology). So, I'm left with one alternative. No doubt seeds could have survived in salt water, and many species seeds (and their leaves and roots) do, but in order to ensure the internal osmolality of the seed cells, more solutes (in the form of nutrients, or perhaps excess sodium) would need to be tolerated in the cell. I doubt seeds can utilize active transport, because they have no energy source (they don't photosynthesise). The problem is, that having such internal concentrations would hardly be good for the plant (extra nutrient requirements for one...I'm sure there are other reasons, but I'm not a botanist). So, the selection pressure against such high concentrations is quite large, so those plants that lived away from salty conditions would have quickly lost this adaptation. Furthermore, if the seeds were isotonic with the floodwater, and the specific seed germination conditions that sidelined mentioned in his OP, this would result in many seeds germinating underwater, because a seed will germinate when it receives water. Lastly, if these complex germination patterns only appeared after the flood, it would appear to contradict the creationist notion of evolution causing the loss of information and being unable to form ordered patterns. That's my ramblings on the matter anyway. Anyone with more knowledge of plants is free to correct or elaborate on what I said. Edited by Doddy, : clarification Edited by Doddy, : expanded further "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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Doddy Member (Idle past 5909 days) Posts: 563 From: Brisbane, Australia Joined: |
Side, it's already been established that plants aren't living things. Or at least, that the authors of the bible didn't think so. It really made perfect sense to imagine an olive tree submerged for a year and then resuming normal growth once it received sunlight. "Der Mensch kann was er will; er kann aber nicht wollen was er will." (Man can do what he wills but he cannot will what he wills.) - Arthur Schopenhauer
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