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Author Topic:   Creationist experiment to prove the possibility of Noah's ark
Perdition
Member (Idle past 798 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 16 of 115 (506110)
04-22-2009 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by pandion
04-22-2009 4:24 PM


Re: That Boat Don't Float
Not only would the air have been unpleasant, it would have been lethal.

Well obviously, Jesus, who has always been alive in some form or another, brought Moses and his family advanced air filtration technology from the 24th century, along with wood from the fabled Irontree of Omicron Persei 8.

DUH!


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Replies to this message:
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pandion
Member (Idle past 561 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 17 of 115 (506123)
04-22-2009 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Perdition
04-22-2009 4:37 PM


Re: That Boat Don't Float
Perdition writes:

Well obviously, Jesus, who has always been alive in some form or another, brought Moses and his family advanced air filtration technology from the 24th century, along with wood from the fabled Irontree of Omicron Persei 8.

And Moses used the wood to build a bridge across the Red Sea?

Actually, there is a big misunderstanding about the wood that Noah used. You will frequently see that it is called gopher wood, and no one has any idea what gopher wood is. What actually happened was that Noah said to his sons, "You gofer wood, I'll wait here." That became gopher wood in the Bible.


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DavidOH
Junior Member (Idle past 2015 days)
Posts: 11
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Joined: 09-12-2008


Message 18 of 115 (506167)
04-23-2009 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Mespo
08-19-2008 4:11 PM


Re: "The Real Noah's Ark"
The problem is that it would be television. If the producers wanted to demostrate that Noah's Ark was reasonable, they could take unrealistic short cuts. I'm thinking of air conditioning, piped water, processed or packaged food, shoveling waste out the door on the first floor, etc. Forever after the creationists would say that the show proved Noah's Ark was possible without referencing the anachronisms.
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 798 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 19 of 115 (506184)
04-23-2009 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by DavidOH
04-23-2009 12:20 PM


Re: "The Real Noah's Ark"
You would just need a producer to be someone who has integrity...if there is such a beast.

Maybe one of our esteemed colleagues on this forum could be talked into consulting on the show?


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Doubletime
Junior Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 27
Joined: 05-08-2009


Message 20 of 115 (507865)
05-08-2009 2:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Taz
08-02-2008 2:42 AM


I have actually done it myself.

The archs shape is perfect to last in stormy weather. As the material. Unlike simmulair tales were they have totally square archs.

Actually there is a way of cheating. It is actually easy to have 2 of every kind. Because you only need to have basic spieces. For exampel only 2 kinds of very mixed humans and in a few generations you will get several Under species for humans. There are only abit more than 100 basic spieces. There are millions of ants species. But you only need 2.

So the debatte about however it was possibel to have that many creature will not lead us anywere. The evolutionist are closed for the possibilitie and the creationist are not open etheir ( allthough i believe in this. There is alot of things that the book doesent tell us about this. So they should research new stuff using this as a base)

So what we can do is to have a miniature arch replica build with the same shapes and so on. and of the same material. Then we should have it in a little water lab to see exactly how much storms it can take before tilting. Of course as with every minyature modell the small modell will in procent be stronger than the original arch.)

And then after this we would be able to decide if this is plausibel or not. If it is plausible and that this kind of boat could withstand heavy super storms then more research should be done to check the sea shells on the mountain and in the desert and try to be 100 percent objective.

Of course more models of the arch should be tested from otehr simmulair tales. There is alot of tales about the flodd actually but i believe all come from the original event. AKA the flood.


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Replies to this message:
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 798 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 21 of 115 (507867)
05-08-2009 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Doubletime
05-08-2009 2:40 PM


Actually there is a way of cheating. It is actually easy to have 2 of every kind. Because you only need to have basic spieces. For exampel only 2 kinds of very mixed humans and in a few generations you will get several Under species for humans. There are only abit more than 100 basic spieces. There are millions of ants species. But you only need 2.

This is just a rehashing of the "kind" debate. Please define for us what a "kind" is, and if you can accept rapid speciation within kinds, what mechanism stops speciation into a new kind?

I have no idea what you mean by Under species for humans...do you mean races? Races and species are completely different.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Doubletime
Junior Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 27
Joined: 05-08-2009


Message 22 of 115 (507869)
05-08-2009 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Perdition
05-08-2009 2:45 PM


That means that all dog species are only races to ? Since they can mate with ech other ? So all the millions of dog races is only 1 specie ? This is what i meant
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Perdition
Member (Idle past 798 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


Message 23 of 115 (507876)
05-08-2009 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Doubletime
05-08-2009 3:03 PM


Yes, technically, all dogs are one species: canis familiarus.

But, what else would you consider a dog kind? Wolves, coyotes? How broadly do you define the kind?


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 24 of 115 (507877)
05-08-2009 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Doubletime
05-08-2009 2:40 PM


quote:
There are only abit more than 100 basic spieces.

Gee then it should be really easy to list them all. Are all the big cats on species? I assume you don't include insects, since I have seen at least 15 different ones today or do insects all fall under one? How about spiders? I know there are alot of different spiders, like 40,000 species, but in your world would you only pick 2 spiders? So are spiders a kind? If you pick lets say a male tarantula and a female brown recluse that is ok because they are the same "kind", right?

Worms are nother thing that confuses me. I am sure you can explain.
There are hundreds of thousands of species of worms, 2,700 of these are earthworms.

So are all worms one kind? Or are earthworms one kind? Worm reproductions confuses me on this whole area too.

Wikipedia says

Some worms reproduce sexually. Hermaphroditism, the condition in which a single individual possesses both male and female reproductive parts, is common in many groups of worms. Asexual reproduction, whereby new individuals develop from the body cells of another, also occurs in some worms.

So some "kinds" only one was needed? You sound like you know all of this and I just don't get it. Please enlighten me so I can pass the hidden knowledge you seem to ahve.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
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pandion
Member (Idle past 561 days)
Posts: 166
From: Houston
Joined: 04-06-2009


Message 25 of 115 (507926)
05-09-2009 2:39 AM


Well, it seems quite clear the all 36 recognized species of cat "evolved" in a few hundred years from the pair of the "cat kind." How is that a problem? Lions, tigers, ocelots, pumas, leopards, cheetahs, jaguars, and your lap cat are all descended from a single pair of the "cat kind". And they were able to cross oceans in their migration from Mt. Ararat. And all of this took place in a few years. And yet, evolution exemplified by the diversification of a single lineage into many is not possible.

Of course, the same thing happened with the canids - dogs. Wolves, jackles, dingos, coyotes, foxes, etc. But evolution is impossible.


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Doubletime
Junior Member (Idle past 2952 days)
Posts: 27
Joined: 05-08-2009


Message 26 of 115 (507929)
05-09-2009 3:11 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by pandion
05-09-2009 2:39 AM


My definition of specie is " if something can mate with something else. It is a species "

It didnt evolve. It adapted. The cats stayed cats for eternity and will never become dogs. According to Darwinism new species evolve. So you can get all races of humans from 1 par ( AKA Adam N Eve) But you will never get something else.

And you would only need a pair of wolves really. And all the other dog races will come sooner or later.

As far as insects they are so small. And there are only a feeeeeew basic species of them allthough extremly much races of them


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Replies to this message:
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Son
Member (Idle past 1390 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 27 of 115 (507932)
05-09-2009 3:23 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Doubletime
05-09-2009 3:11 AM


What about ring species? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ring_species
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15962
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 5.0


Message 28 of 115 (507942)
05-09-2009 5:19 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Doubletime
05-09-2009 3:11 AM


It didnt evolve. It adapted.

What distinction are you trying to draw?

The cats stayed cats for eternity and will never become dogs.

That's what the theory of evolution says.


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5772
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 9.3


Message 29 of 115 (507987)
05-09-2009 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Doubletime
05-09-2009 3:11 AM


quote:
As far as insects they are so small. And there are only a feeeeeew basic species of them allthough extremly much races of them

You seriously think this is a legitimate answer? You don't believe in evolution, but think all the different species of insects are from a small group of 4000 years ago? This is just plain crazy.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 1750 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 30 of 115 (507991)
05-09-2009 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Doubletime
05-09-2009 3:11 AM


Doubletime writes:

As far as insects they are so small. And there are only a feeeeeew basic species of them allthough extremly much races of them

That statement makes no sense. There are over 30 orders of insects.

Foe example the order Coleoptera (Beetles) has over 250,000 defined species, none of which can mate with another. Are these a kind? or is the insects themselves a kind? or how about the family, Scarabaeidae.
Saying that there are only a few insect species is showing a complete lack of scientific knowledge.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


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