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Author Topic:   General discussion of moderation procedures
AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 103 of 304 (205089)
05-04-2005 9:50 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Faith
05-04-2005 9:26 PM


Re: Request that Percy not be banned
Hi Faith,
Thanks for the comment. I'm glad to hear you took his post in the way that I'm sure Percy intended.
Discussing the posting tendencies in other posts is in general a bad way to proceed. Things often get sensitive here. It's also easy for others to believe he's speaking out of both sides of his mouth--coming down harsher on posting behavior recently, and then satirizing another poster in the middle of a discussion.
In my mind, I want to make it clear that it's NOT OK to parody another poster. I've seen too many situations here where a similar thing just leads to bickering, and we need to make sure that kind of thing stops. As silly as it might sound to others, if Percy had asked you and got your permission before posting, I'd have no problem with it. But given the amount of personal attacks we've been seeing going on around here recently, I thought it's better to act without prompting.
There doesn't need to be so much "interpretation" of the forum rules, and I thought it's best to "nip this one in the bud" before anybody else started getting "confused" about what is appropriate and what is not.
That said, I'm going to leave Percy's suspension in place. He'll be back in 24 hours. I'm glad to know that you two have a good understanding of each other, and that you took the post in the way it was intended. I'm happy to take any other comments here.
AbE: Changing to admin mode
This message has been edited by AdminBen, Thursday, 2005/05/05 11:54 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Faith, posted 05-04-2005 9:26 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by Tony650, posted 05-05-2005 12:41 AM AdminBen has not replied
 Message 107 by Faith, posted 05-05-2005 1:17 AM AdminBen has not replied
 Message 108 by arachnophilia, posted 05-05-2005 2:01 AM AdminBen has not replied

AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 304 (205173)
05-05-2005 6:12 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by CK
05-05-2005 5:54 AM


Re: Double Standards - Faith
First of all, thanks for replying here, and not in the suspension / bannings thread.
I think you did miss something. The message was written by Percy here.
Admin writes:
Faith writes:
Imagine that. You're deaf to parody. You don't even recognize the thinking of the majority of the idiots on this site whom I am parodying, very likely including yourself.
I'm torn because on the one hand you're unable to stay within the Forum Guidelines, and on the other hand this is a very interesting discussion. Let us try a compromise. If you agree to participate in only a single thread at a time, I'll ignore your guidelines violations.
To everyone else: please do not respond in kind to Faith. Treat her and her ideas with honor and respect.
(My bold) Hope that helps explicate things.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by CK, posted 05-05-2005 5:54 AM CK has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Trixie, posted 05-05-2005 4:24 PM AdminBen has not replied

AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 191 of 304 (206298)
05-08-2005 11:17 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by Rrhain
05-08-2005 4:55 PM


Re: At the risk of being banned
Rrhain,
I've taken the liberty of summarizing the issue you've presented, and of providing admin response. If this doesn't answer your questions and you feel the need to discuss this further, please stick closely to the issue at hand.

Rrhain in msg 175 writes:
Why is it inappropriate to point out when someone is lying?
Nobody said that. We said it's inappropriate to call someone a liar.
Rrhain in msg 175 writes:
When the forum guidelines make a point of maintaining integrity, not misrepresenting things, etc., why is indicating that someone has violated those standards problematic?
It is OK to point out to a poster that he/she is re-using refuted arguments and to ask for them to address that. If no agreement can be made, then you have two options:
1. Drop it. Some things just aren't that important.
2. Contact the board administration. We can review the case, and take action on anybody who we find to be misrepresenting things
Rrhain in post 186 writes:
You pointed out reasons why a person might want to hesitate before accusing someone of lying, but you didn't say why such an accusation is bad if it can be substantiated.
NOWHERE in here is it necessary to call someone names. That goes for "lying" / "liar", "stupid", or anything else.
Substantiate the meaning behind the name. Show someone what you believe to be the facts and reasons behind the name. Judging from your previous posts, you do this. Once you do this, calling names becomes superfluous. It becomes simply inflammatory. There's no need for inflammatory tactics here, and it won't be tolerated, no matter the form or reason.
Rrhain in post 186 writes:
Why is it against the rules to point out someone going against the rules?
Clearly a false dichotomy. We're talking about calling someone a liar, not "pointing out someone is going against the rules." As pointed out above, there's never a need to call someone a liar. We find name-calling to be inflammatory, unnecessary, and do not put up with it. STOP IT.
Rrhain in post 187 writes:
Are you so afraid of being questioned about your method of governance that you would "sanction" someone who dared to consider that perhaps you were overreaching?
Those who question, and are answered, but are unhappy with the answer and therefore continue the SAME line of questioning are open to board sanctions.
Just to be crystal clear, this summary will act as your answer. If you have genuine, straightforward questions about how to apply it, ask away. If you don't like it and you ask bitchy, inflammatory questions about it, you're going to get suspended.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by Rrhain, posted 05-08-2005 4:55 PM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 193 by Rrhain, posted 05-09-2005 2:35 AM AdminBen has replied

AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 194 of 304 (206354)
05-09-2005 4:02 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Rrhain
05-09-2005 2:35 AM


Re: At the risk of being banned
Rrhain,
You asked 2 straightforward questions, and one that was not straightforward but I'm willing to address. Here are your answers:
1. Is lying OK on this forum?
Absolutely not.
2. Why is it bad to point out when someone is lying?
Don't ask this question again. From my perspective, you've conflated three questions, and thus made one question which is loaded. Thus, if you ask this question again, I'm going to ignore it. Below I try and unpack your question, and to answer the parts. You're going to have to derive your answer from there. That's the best I can do.
Here's the "unpacked" questions:
quote:
Why is it bad to say "you're a liar!" or "you're lying!" to another poster?
It solves nothing. In the case where the person IS lying, nothing changes. Do you think a liar changes his/her tune just because you pointed it out? In the case where the person was NOT lying, including the case where there's misunderstanding by one or both parties, calling someone a liar pisses them off.
Name-calling solves nothing.
quote:
Why is it bad to point out when someone is re-using refuted arguments?
Provided that you do so using evidence, and that you avoid name-calling like "that's a lie," "you're lying," or "liar," it's not.
quote:
Why is it bad to confront other posters who are misrepresenting or lying?
Because chances are very high the confrontation will degrade into a battle of words and emotions. That does no good here. I told you to take a different approach--to contact admin. Which leads to question 3:
If no agreement can be made, then you have two options:
1. Drop it. Some things just aren't that important.
2. Contact the board administration. We can review the case, and take action on anybody who we find to be misrepresenting things
3. And how is one to do that if it is against the rules to point it out?
The only action you can take is to email admin. Supply your point-by-point list of why you think somebody is lying, including thread and post numbers if possible. We'll review it. If we agree, we'll take action against the person doing the misrepresenting.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Rrhain, posted 05-09-2005 2:35 AM Rrhain has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 196 by RAZD, posted 05-09-2005 7:46 AM AdminBen has not replied
 Message 224 by Rrhain, posted 05-14-2005 1:29 AM AdminBen has not replied

AdminBen
Inactive Member


Message 195 of 304 (206357)
05-09-2005 4:20 AM
Reply to: Message 192 by arachnophilia
05-08-2005 11:57 PM


Re: anecdotes and complaints
Arach,
Thanks for the comment. Fair enough. My point is that, regardless of logic, if somebody is angry and feels bad, regardless of the merit (or lack of merit) of their position, it's not very respectful to poke fun at their position. Especially when they're not around to say anything about it.
Your post was OK. In my eyes, the discussion that ensued was really stretching it, especially given that contra's not around.
You can expect this type of thought-process and admin-style from me in the future. So if you have a comment or concern about it, it's good to let me know.

Comments on moderation procedures (or wish to respond to admin messages)? - Go to:
General discussion of moderation procedures
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum
New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC and Assistance w/ Forum Formatting

This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by arachnophilia, posted 05-08-2005 11:57 PM arachnophilia has not replied

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