General discussion of moderation procedures

I half think it must be a joke that he was banned for his message to me, but in case it wasn't I would like to say that I found his post satirizing my posts to be hilarious and no more out of line than anything I have posted which he has been putting up with for some time now.

"Civilized intellectual debate..." AAAAA HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAAHA You're even funnier than Percy's parody.

I'm sure you're right. For one thing hitting the right note in parody is not something everyone can do and even if you do it right somebody is going to think you're being straight.

I think it's SO funny that you all consider the normal style here to be well-behaved, that snotty way everybody has of demanding "proof" and only a particular KIND of "proof" for instance, the rampant misrepresentation that is NEVER noticed by Admin, the INDIRECT name-calling that is epidemic. You guys are a riot! At least I'll be going out laughing.

Alas, alas. Nobody has noticed that the straight-out insults began when I decided to LEAVE this place, my parting benedictions on the whole scene as it were. They are completely intentional, completely in my control. The indulgence of the insults by Admin began at that point in order to keep me here. I guess being a Fundy YEC I'm rare enough for someone to want to keep me around and put up with the insults long enough to set me up to abuse me properly when the time comes. But I have no motive to stay around any more except for the amusement this latest gambit has occasioned.

I'm sure it felt like that to you the ONE time I let you have it after putting up for ages with your Chinese torture methods of refusing to acknowledge a simple point I was making while insisting on holding me to a perfectly inane standard of your own. But I can't expect you to see things from my point of view.

This is exactly the kind of rude crap creos are greeted with here. If you want a certain standard of scientific knowledge then establish that standard and don't admit anyone who doesn't meet it, instead of attacking people for their efforts. This is uncivilized behavior, and actually, from what I've seen of many creo posts here, completely unwarranted. This is just a typical piece of evo arrogance.

Maybe I'll stick around to torture you some more first.

The way it is done here, yes it is. Again, if you require that degree of knowledge for any particular topic it should be made clear up front. There is something that goes on here that is understood by your side of it in the terms you are presenting here, that is understood completely differently by the other side, and explaining it is extremely difficult if not impossible. You take your standards absolutely for granted, but it may be that SCIENCE as such is not really the problem, it's just that you THINK it is.The reasoning on the other side it seems to me from just reading through many posts here is often really very good, but those on your side just don't see it. This is why Bible-believing Christians and YECs just can't stick it out here. The prejudice is thick and vicious against them in ways you guys are aapparently completely oblivious to. I do not know if this is even a halfway fair assessment of the situation, but I would point out that this place is not titled the SCIENCE FORUM, it is titled EVOLUTIONISM VERSUS CREATIONISM. Although there are many science-minded creationists and most of us try to follow the basics at least, YECs at least start from Biblical revelation. Not to prove the case BY Biblical revelation except among ourselves of course, because we know that is not acceptable here -- and I find it very frustrating that I am accused of arguing FROM the Bible when I have very carefully NOT done so -- but that's a side issue. The point is that if this place really wants to be about BOTH evolutionism and creationism you have to make SOME accommodations to the thinking of the creationists.How, what, I don't know, but the problem with this supposed scientific mindset here is not that it's scientific but that it is circular -- evolution is so identified in your minds with science that nothing is regarded as science that doesn't prove evolution. There's a genuine Catch-22 type of situation going on here that you guys are incapable of recognizing, and those on my side are merely bashed by it all the time though it is hard to define exactly what it is. A LOT Of what is accepted as scientific here is truly stupid, I mean that literally, it is stupid, it is sophomoric, it is almost a parody of science but it is accepted as science while an extremely well reasoned argument from the other side of the fence is dismissed out of hand as not scientific. It is VERY hard to define what I am trying to say here because these assumptions are so ingrained they are unconscious.It's a side issue, but about your listening to preachers, I do not know what kind of preachers you've been exposed to but if they are any good they preach from the Bible and from historical background and from Bible scholarship all together. They are preaching to people who believe the Bible is inspired by God, and their job is simply to elucidate what God is saying. I really don't know what if anything this has to do with what goes on here though. In the context of preaching the Bible scientific assumptions are absolutely irrelevant.But you will not recognize any other kind of thinking as valid at all for any purpose whatever, and that is really stacking the deck. This is NOT what is going on here and your thinking it is is a BIG part of the problem. From my point of view many of the demands for support are just mindless rote behavior based on refusing to think about what is actually being said. They are STUPID demands, they are IRRELEVANT, they MISS the POINT, they are CHILDISH, they are NOT SCIENCE in any meaningful sense of the term -- or they are BAD science. I have been more driven crazy by pseudoscientific DRIVEL in answer to points I have made than just about anything else here, the inability to follow the argument, misreadings, misinterpretations, niggling nitpicky trivia glorified by the name of science, it's enough to drive a person stark raving mad.

Typical obstructionist irrelevant post.

Well, another obstructionist irrelevant post from you. Ho hum. I believe Ayn Rand's stuff is called objectivism.A perfect example of the poverty of education on this site that is half the problem I keep running into here.

AAAaaaaaaaaaaaaa ha ha ha ha ha ha haha ha Excuse me while I choke to death over that absolutely absurd statement. Sheesh!

No I didn't abandon anything. I didn't get back to some things due to developments elsewhere. But like all your ilk here, you must say something to demean my motives.But really, as I've suggested before, you should change the title of this place to Evolution-Science Gulag. Your occasional claim to evenhandedness is now blown with this post of yours. You are right I don't belong here, for reasons you will never ever understand, more's the pity. Have fun proving your own premises forever. Oh and DO put up a warning for the poor fundy creos who come along here, so they'll know in advance that this is NO place to discuss anything rationally or meaningfully. Save a lot of wear and tear on the psyche they could best invest elsewhere.

Yes, motives, motives for ABANDONING certain threads, Percy, isn't that what you said, I didn't continue because I didn't know the science?? Sorry, that is NOT why I didn't continue. YES, that's an accusation about my MOTIVES, which you are now topping with a further accusation of my "making up charges" that it was about my motives, SO par for the course here. Schraf indulges in abusive interrogation tactics worthy of the KGB perhaps, or the Grand Inquisitor, or a demented adolescent version thereof, but not science, useless nitpicking with no creditable objective. She's possibly but not necessarily the worst of the lot here. The pretense that any of that has anything to do with science is the most abusive thing done here.Your ignorance of the provocations, the ENDLESS insulting rude nasty provocations, practiced by YOUR side of this, needs to be challenged. Apparently no amount of explanation gets through, then if the person erupts in rage at the mistreatment FURTHER punishment ensues, as if what he's already endured hasn't been enough already.I will simply ignore your impertinent moralizing about my behavior here. You don't like it, ban me, but spare me your two bit moralisms. I don't have a problem with my behavior at all, and I have no respect for the kind of nicey nice lobotomizing that passes for Christianity these days that leads people to call themselves Christians who have compromised its truths to the point of irrelevance. Too many on my side have bit the dust here because of the outrageous prejudices against them. The abusive behavior on YOUR side of this is ridiculously called science and needs to be exposed. I am more than capable of dispassionate discussion as has been amply demonstrated by at least 90% of my near 1000 posts here, but when the opposition plays the tricks that are played here, and has the effrontery to call them SCIENCE, then answering nonsense with nonsense is the only way to go.

I'd kind of like to see a whole forum geared to something like the Theology of Creationism -- or even, to put it maximally paradoxically, the Theology of Science -- where all the Biblical bases for creationist thinking about natural science -- either ID or YEC or anything else -- could be discussed freely, but NOT EXCLUDING what you might consider to be explicitly scientific considerations. There is too strict a division being made here for some of us, or for me anyway, as when you prescribe the above to be "a no science topic."I'm personally tired of fighting the science requirements here and would enjoy the opportunity to discuss Bible-based ideas about evolution and related questions without being nagged all the time to meet such requirements, but on the other hand I don't want to be prohibited from bringing in any "strictly" scientific ideas that may apply.{Edit: However it might be titled or defined, I'd like it to be able to include the kind of ideas I was posting on the Simple Evidence for ID thread last night, and including the Junk DNA subtopic as well, because it fits right into the overall idea of a perfect universe that's been damaged that I was pursuing.}Possibly this kind of forum would suit Buz's interests and talents too.Edited to correct thread titleThis message has been edited by Faith, 05-19-2005 12:24 PM