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Author Topic:   Human Evolution (re: If evolved from apes, why still apes?)
kakip
Junior Member (Idle past 3468 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 12-23-2007


Message 1 of 128 (443092)
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


If humans were said to be.. or be related to gorillas.. or chimpanzees or of those african apes, why is there still such things as gorillas and other apes.. wouldnt there be all humans if the apes have evolved into these humans.. how are these apes still maintain all the perfect DNA as to what exactly they are as apes, when apes have evolved into humans.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added "(re: If evolved from ape, why still apes?)" part to topic title.

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Made "ape" to "apes".


Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by AdminNosy, posted 12-23-2007 7:40 PM kakip has not yet responded
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 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-23-2007 7:54 PM kakip has not yet responded
 Message 6 by jar, posted 12-23-2007 7:55 PM kakip has not yet responded
 Message 10 by Taz, posted 12-24-2007 12:11 PM kakip has not yet responded
 Message 11 by Chiroptera, posted 12-24-2007 3:19 PM kakip has not yet responded
 Message 12 by Dr Jack, posted 12-24-2007 3:25 PM kakip has not yet responded

    
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4753
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 2 of 128 (443114)
12-23-2007 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


Total, Gleeful Missuse of Power Coming Up
I'm promoting this. :)
This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by kakip, posted 12-23-2007 6:21 PM kakip has not yet responded

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AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4753
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 3 of 128 (443115)
12-23-2007 7:40 PM


Thread moved here from the Proposed New Topics forum.
  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8799
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 4 of 128 (443119)
12-23-2007 7:42 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


Congratulations to Kakip!!
It has been awhile since anyone asked this.

This question is used as an example of the most utterly, obviously stupid questions that creationists ask. If one had the very tiniest amount of a clue about what the evolutionary model was about and one thought for just a small moment it would be obvious that this is very, very dumb.

I'm sure you have been given this question by some preacher or another member of the CCOI-tm by Jar ( Christian Cult of Ignorance) as a supposed killer of Darwinism.

If so you should reject such as individual or organization of a source for any of your ideas. They are either deliberately lying or utterly and willful ignorant.

The answer is derivable from:
If your parents have children how come they are still around and/or if you exist do your cousins have to die?

Try it and see. If you can't get it from that clue then you are too abysmally dumb to be able to understand anything discussed here and you might as well leave.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 5 of 128 (443122)
12-23-2007 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


Hi there.

If humans were said to be.. or be related to gorillas.. or chimpanzees or of those african apes, why is there still such things as gorillas and other apes.. wouldnt there be all humans if the apes have evolved into these humans..

Ah, it's the ol' "why are there still monkeys?" thing again.

If Iceland was colonized by Scandinavians, why are there still Scandinavians?

how are these apes still maintain all the perfect DNA as to what exactly they are as apes, when apes have evolved into humans.

The apes we have now are not, in fact, the apes you used to get in the good old days, they too have evolved since the time of our common ancestor.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 6 of 128 (443123)
12-23-2007 7:55 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


Actually we did not evolve from Apes...
We are apes.

Whoever told you that stuff is simply a liar, likely another "Liar for Jesus."

All us Apes evolved from something that was not yet Ape, so the Chimp and the Gorilla, the Human and the Bonobo, Jesus and the Orangutan are all equally evolved, equally Ape.


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 7 of 128 (443135)
12-23-2007 8:11 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by jar
12-23-2007 7:55 PM


Actually ...
We are apes.

Whoever told you that stuff is simply a liar, likely another "Liar for Jesus."

All us Apes evolved from something that was not yet Ape

I wish people wouldn't do that.

Look, if apes are a clade, then our common ancestors with chimps was an ape.

If, on the other hand, we're going to allow the term "apes" to be anacladic, then in common parlance we are not apes, and our common ancestor with chimps would so be clasified. 'Cos they look like, y'know, apes.

Your definition of apes, in which we are, but our ancestors aren't, corresponds to no concept I've ever heard of, and combines the worst features of both definitions.

Be nice.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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jar
Member
Posts: 29363
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 8 of 128 (443145)
12-23-2007 8:26 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Dr Adequate
12-23-2007 8:11 PM


Re: Actually ...
Well, I would say that the common ancestor somewhere back there was a primate, but today's apes, humans, chimps, gorillas, bonobos and Jesus are something different. Would it make you feel better if I said "Not a modern ape?"


Immigration has been a problem Since 1607!
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Granny Magda
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Posts: 2320
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 9 of 128 (443309)
12-24-2007 12:00 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by jar
12-23-2007 8:26 PM


Re: Actually ...
jar writes:

Would it make you feel better if I said "Not a modern ape?"

Yeah, I think that would be cleaer, since kakip seems to have missed a very important point point about natural history and evolution.
Just to reiterate, kakip, no-one is trying to say that humans are descended from gorillas, chimps, bonobos or any other modern ape.
Humans and modern apes share a common ancestor. This ancestor was very similar to modern apes, whatever you want to call it, but not the same as any living species. Hope this helps, kakip.


Mutate and Survive
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Taz
Member (Idle past 819 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 10 of 128 (443310)
12-24-2007 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


Wow... and this OP made it through the rigorous Admin review process?

Anyway, here is a question for you to ponder about. If god made human from dirt, how come there are still dirt around?


Owing to the deficiency of the English language, I have occasionally used the academic jargon generator to produce phrases that even I don't fully understand. The jargons are not meant to offend anyone or to insult anyone's intelligence!
This message is a reply to:
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Chiroptera
Member
Posts: 6393
From: Oklahoma
Joined: 09-28-2003
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 11 of 128 (443334)
12-24-2007 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


It is rare, it seems, for an entire species to evolve into another species. Usually it is a small population of the species, isolated from the rest somehow, that evolves. So you can have new species arise while the old species remain.


"The guilty one is not he who commits the sin, but the one who causes the darkness."
Clearly, he had his own strange way of judging things. I suspect that he acquired it from the Gospels. -- Victor Hugo
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Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3506
From: Leicester, England
Joined: 07-14-2003


Message 12 of 128 (443337)
12-24-2007 3:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by kakip
12-23-2007 6:21 PM


So, 6 million years ago there's a bunch of apes hanging around in a tree, some of these apes thought it'd be a nifty idea to start hanging around on all this big shiny savanna that opened up and was filled with Lions and Tigers along with the odd Mushroom and Badger and so they hoped down from the trees and learnt to walk on two legs, shave and do complicated long division sums while the rest of them sloped around and became chimps.
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15950
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 6.7


Message 13 of 128 (443338)
12-24-2007 3:34 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
12-24-2007 3:25 PM


So, 6 million years ago there's a bunch of apes hanging around in a tree, some of these apes thought it'd be a nifty idea to start hanging around on all this big shiny savanna that opened up and was filled with Lions and Tigers along with the odd Mushroom and Badger and so they hoped down from the trees and learnt to walk on two legs, shave and do complicated long division sums while the rest of them sloped around and became chimps.

Close, but no cigar.


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Equinox
Member (Idle past 2670 days)
Posts: 329
From: Michigan
Joined: 08-18-2006


Message 14 of 128 (443461)
12-25-2007 7:14 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
12-23-2007 7:54 PM


Dr. A wrote:

If Iceland was colonized by Scandinavians, why are there still Scandinavians?

Yes, and another example that may be closer to home for many creationists would be:

"If the people in Boston are descended from the British, how come there are still British people over in Britan?"

Mr. Jack-

Not bad. You got the gist of the discussion, that only some of parent species must evolve (the dirt example is useful too). Of course, your example is written to make fun of the idea as you know - hence your exaggeration of the dangers and lack of mention of the benefits. You also mention things as if early humans planned them: "thought", "learned" etc, which is Lamarckian. But hey, I like having fun with ideas too, so I enjoyed your post.

Have a fun day everyone-

-Equinox


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nator
Member (Idle past 2170 days)
Posts: 12961
Joined: 12-09-2001


Message 15 of 128 (443466)
12-25-2007 7:27 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Dr Jack
12-24-2007 3:25 PM


quote:
along with the odd Mushroom and Badger

Badger Mushroom!!!


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