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Author Topic:   A personal question
mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 3 of 193 (19954)
10-15-2002 6:48 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Delshad
10-15-2002 3:13 PM


Delshad,
quote:
However, all these traits seem to vanquish compared to the similarity between our genes, 2-5 %(why is that so, are there other factors that I dont know of?).
Yup, pretty much ALL the differences are accounted for in the small genetic difference between humans & chimps. I recently had to labour this very point to someone on another board, genetic differences are not necessarily linked in a linear fashion to behaviour & morphology. In fact, very small changes at the nucleotide level can cause enormous morphological change.
Even changes that increase intelligence can cause effect in a non-linear way. For example if you multiplied a severely impaired Downs syndrome childs IQ by 4 you would have a very, very talented individual. Going from someone that has trouble dressing to someone who has the capacity to be a brilliant scientist. That is to say, their intellectual capability has gone up by more than fourfold. I appreciate that IQ isn't the only measure of intelligence, but you get the picture. Small changes can = larger effects.
I've seen quotes of Gorillas with IQs of 70-ish (clever even for them), so for the sake of argument, let's call a chimps IQ 20, it only has to go up fivefold to be considered average human.
Now, of course, we are assisted with speech, & maybe other advantages that our brains give us over chimps, but it's not necessarily that much that separates us, & a chimp-on-the-edge-of-culture.
The intellectual aspect that ISN'T inherited, & therefore NOT due to the genetic difference is learned behaviour, ie passed on knowledge. We are not the only animals that have learned behaviour, either. Songbirds get most of their repertoires from other birds, with individuals raised in captivity having a much simplified range. Mammalian predators like dogs, wolves, lions etc learn their trade in the same way.
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.
[This message has been edited by mark24, 10-15-2002]

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Delshad, posted 10-15-2002 3:13 PM Delshad has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Delshad, posted 10-15-2002 7:15 PM mark24 has not replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 6 of 193 (19962)
10-15-2002 8:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Tranquility Base
10-15-2002 8:20 PM


TB,
So why are non-morphological defining genes (cytochrome c, for example) so similar as well, then?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Tranquility Base, posted 10-15-2002 8:20 PM Tranquility Base has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 10-15-2002 9:34 PM mark24 has replied

  
mark24
Member (Idle past 5217 days)
Posts: 3857
From: UK
Joined: 12-01-2001


Message 35 of 193 (20127)
10-17-2002 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Tranquility Base
10-15-2002 9:34 PM


quote:
TB:
My only point is regardless of linearity or non-linearity of genotype-phenotype relationships, genes do dictate phenotype so no-one is surprised at the genetic similarity of us to chimps - we are phsyiologically very similar. But that could be due to a common designer.
quote:
Mark:
So why are non-morphological defining genes (cytochrome c, for example) so similar as well, then?
quote:
TB::
Phenotype does not have to be macroscopically morphological. Cytochromes will be used wherever required in respiration.
TB,
That's not what I mean. I often hear that chimps & humans have similar genomes because they are morphologically similar. With molecules such as cytochrome c, there is no need for them to be similar at all. We could reasonably have identical cyt c as a mushroom, why not? It may need a nip & tuck here & there, but there's no real reason that the molecule cytochrome c varies by up to 50% (amino acid-wise)in other life forms. Mushroom cyt c does exactly the same thing in humans as sunflowers, chimps & dolphins, yet curiously, phylogenetic trees based on nucleotide & amino acid sequences are highly congruent with cladograms tracking morphological traits.
Why would this be?
Mark
------------------
Occam's razor is not for shaving with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Tranquility Base, posted 10-15-2002 9:34 PM Tranquility Base has not replied

  
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