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Author Topic:   From chimp to man: it's as easy as 1, 2, 3!
Damouse
Member (Idle past 4931 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 63 of 128 (355520)
10-10-2006 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by fallacycop
09-07-2006 2:04 PM


Pop scares me....
Id write a long respons to the monolithic block of c/p from pop, but it would be most painful. A summary is in order, and when he is back from his plagarism jail-time, i would like to ask him to summerize his major points.
I do believe that you said that mutations RARELY happen, but you later go on to say that mutations are seen everywhere, as with Down Syndrome. Forget that being a contradiction, you continue to profess a whole lot of either hidden knowledge or misinformation, as you hide behind quotes exclusively and never come out on a limb. You dont have a very scientific method in your analysis of mutations, as you ignore sources that say otherwise then your theory.
Such as this.
http://www.gate.net/~rwms/EvoMutations.html
Within our DNA, there exists the old copies, nonfunctional, or simply mutated genes that simply exist, with no real function. This itself is proof of evolution, as when part of the gene mutated for charecteristics that no longer profited us, the rest of the gene remained, but was rendered non-funtional. I havent read the article in a while, but i believe that there are actually almost more pseudogenes; non funtional bits of genes, then real genes.
Proof is here
http://papers.gersteinlab.org/e-print/sciam2/reprint.pdf
...aaaaand here.
Discover Financial Services
Notice the pictures of the mice. This one small gene change changed this mouse this much without killing it. A hundred of these small mutations and a new species emerges.
Your claim that all mutations are bad ones, and the listings of radiation exposure are fundementally flawed. Firstly, if a mutation that was bad for an animal happened, the animal would not live to spread its flawed genes to any appreciable amount of the population because that animal would die. but if ANY good mutation occured, a chance of one in a billionith for sure, that animal was almost assured to pass its good genes on, because that mutation would help it survive. One in a billion is a lot, but lets have a math moment.
Lets pretend there is an island out in the ocean populated by bunnies and other wildlife. Lets also say that there are about 50 million bunnies on this island, and that in ideal circumstances, predators kill half of the bunnies' offspring, which we will assume to be 6 per pair, for simplicity. The bunnies mate every two years like clockwork; and these bunnies die the year after they mate. As a final assumtion lets assume that any harmful mutation is included in the bunnies that die off, and that every billionth bunny there is a beneficial mutation. So to finish it off, every 2 years the bunnies get busy and produce 75 million new bunnies, which expands the population and creates the potential for mutation.
By the forth year, there have been 1.875 billion births, and therefor one good mutation in the entire fleet of bunnies. if we continue, by the 16th year there have been 3.5 billion births, and this number continues to increase exponentially, while so far in 16 years there have been three minor beneficial mutations for the bunnies.
This is obviously an enviroment with perfect conditions. The bunnies would not be so lucky in their protection from predators, nor their enormous island and numbers, and in the same light the time is increased from 16 years to hundreds of millions of years to compensate. Is this possible in the extended timeframe? yup. are you wrong? you betchya.
As to the claims of harmful mutations in chernobyl and Hiroshima, that is to be expected, and you have not done your homework. When exposed to radiation, the mutation rate of all of the cells in the body is increased enormously. During normal cell division mutations are redily expected because of the damage done by the radiation. As this happens, and changes that are beneficial are lost, as the changes happen in individual selective cells, not the reproductive cells or mutations in the reproductive event. Therefor any good changes, like acute hearing or greater muscle density are lost when the cell bearing the changes is a skin cell or a neuron. When that cell becomes cancerous because of radiation, the host WILL notice.
The effect of radiation on human DNA
Page not found | Washington State Department of Health
Edited by Damouse, : SP

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by fallacycop, posted 09-07-2006 2:04 PM fallacycop has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Wounded King, posted 10-10-2006 2:45 AM Damouse has replied

  
Damouse
Member (Idle past 4931 days)
Posts: 215
From: Brookfield, Wisconsin
Joined: 12-18-2005


Message 65 of 128 (355707)
10-10-2006 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Wounded King
10-10-2006 2:45 AM


Re: Pop scares me....
i wasnt really responding to him and asking him to argue against my points, i was simply countering his argument for the sake of mine and for the life of the thread.

-I believe in God, I just call it Nature
-One man with an imaginary friend is insane. a Million men with an imaginary friend is a religion.
-People must often be reminded that the bible did not arrive as a fax from heaven; it was written by men.
-Religion is the opiate of the masses

This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Wounded King, posted 10-10-2006 2:45 AM Wounded King has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by palehorse, posted 10-15-2006 10:33 AM Damouse has not replied

  
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