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Author Topic:   How will creationists react to the first human-chimp hybrid?
ausar_maat
Member (Idle past 5519 days)
Posts: 136
From: Toronto
Joined: 10-04-2005


Message 125 of 138 (501676)
03-07-2009 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by RAZD
02-26-2009 10:01 PM


As for the neanthers' homology with sapiens, lets wait a little. They're currently at 63% of completely mapping their genome. But the real relative question will be centered on the gene expression in the brain. This is the quintessence of what differentiates sapiens and homonids. If gene expression in neanthers turns out within similar levels as sapiens, then there is a serious creationist case, in spite of other physiological aspects.
However, this would not validate the underlying premise of a purist christian creationism, which is to deny the relationship between man and primates.
But now, here's one problem I have, since this thread is about humans and chimps. I'm trying to understand how is it that according to Hiller (2005), the "extra" centromere found in chromosome 2 is related to chromosome 13 in the chimp. Shouldn't that centromere be the one from either chimp chrom 2a or 2b, since they constitutionally form chromosome 2 in man? How did chrom 13 in chimps get in this equation?

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 Message 124 by RAZD, posted 02-26-2009 10:01 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by NosyNed, posted 03-07-2009 2:09 PM ausar_maat has replied

  
ausar_maat
Member (Idle past 5519 days)
Posts: 136
From: Toronto
Joined: 10-04-2005


Message 127 of 138 (501717)
03-07-2009 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by NosyNed
03-07-2009 2:09 PM


Re: Labelling Chromosomes
I wonder though, if the centromere in chrom 2 is from chimp chrom 13, it should theoritically leave us with a third inactive centromere in chrom 2, but we only found 2 (one active, one not). Moreover, the centromere from chimp chrom 13 was not part of the fusion event between 2b and 2a (formally 2p and 2q)? Therefore we have a strange situation. What happened there? I can't seem to find any scientific paper to explain this phenomenon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by NosyNed, posted 03-07-2009 2:09 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by Taz, posted 03-07-2009 3:24 PM ausar_maat has replied
 Message 131 by NosyNed, posted 03-07-2009 5:31 PM ausar_maat has replied

  
ausar_maat
Member (Idle past 5519 days)
Posts: 136
From: Toronto
Joined: 10-04-2005


Message 129 of 138 (501735)
03-07-2009 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by Taz
03-07-2009 3:24 PM


Re: Labelling Chromosomes
That's my point exactly. Since chrom 2 in man is made of chroms 2a & 2b of apes , each having one centromere, then Hillier's claim about the second inactive centromere in chrom 2 (man) being related to chimp chrom 13, then he's introducing third centromere into the equation. But where is the explanation for it? I can't find a scientific paper that deals with this?

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 Message 128 by Taz, posted 03-07-2009 3:24 PM Taz has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by lyx2no, posted 03-07-2009 4:25 PM ausar_maat has not replied

  
ausar_maat
Member (Idle past 5519 days)
Posts: 136
From: Toronto
Joined: 10-04-2005


Message 132 of 138 (501792)
03-07-2009 7:12 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by NosyNed
03-07-2009 5:31 PM


Re: Centromeres
Hillier made this proposition in 2004. By then, chimp chromosomes 2b and 2a had been known as 2q and 2p respectively for over 30 years! Moreover, chimp chrom 13 had been known AS 13. So there is no confusion here. Pull up studies from the past 20 years on the sunject with chimp chromosome diagrams if you need confirmation. So Hillier was talking about chrom 13 specifically, not chrom 2b called 13.
Now that we've clarified this, I assume you have not come accross any article dealing with this question. Or else you would have done so. But... if you do find one, please let me know. It would help in a research I am conducting on this subject.
thank you

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 Message 131 by NosyNed, posted 03-07-2009 5:31 PM NosyNed has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 133 by NosyNed, posted 03-07-2009 7:19 PM ausar_maat has not replied
 Message 134 by Taz, posted 03-07-2009 7:41 PM ausar_maat has not replied
 Message 135 by lyx2no, posted 03-07-2009 11:54 PM ausar_maat has replied

  
ausar_maat
Member (Idle past 5519 days)
Posts: 136
From: Toronto
Joined: 10-04-2005


Message 136 of 138 (501854)
03-08-2009 7:38 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by lyx2no
03-07-2009 11:54 PM


Re: Centromeres
Now that answer was helpful. That's exactly what I wanted to clarify and you did so in very succinct, clear terms.
Thank you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by lyx2no, posted 03-07-2009 11:54 PM lyx2no has not replied

  
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