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Author Topic:   The race issue
AdminNosy
Administrator
Posts: 4754
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Joined: 11-11-2003


Message 61 of 134 (492216)
12-29-2008 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Peg
12-29-2008 4:56 AM


honest debate is required
Peg, if you don't want to seriously discuss various issues then please don't post at all.

If your level of interaction stays where it has been you will start to receive suspensions. Either don't post or work harder at it. Thanks.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 4:56 AM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 80 by Peg, posted 12-30-2008 6:55 AM AdminNosy has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2142 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 62 of 134 (492237)
12-29-2008 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Peg
12-29-2008 6:25 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
but i do doubt that a '40,000' year old culture could only amount to 300,000 people

There are many factors that can and has caused this to occur, some natural some man-made. Such natural occurrences as hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, tsunamis, famine etc. plus diseases which can limit the number of people. Then life expectancy differed, not to mention wars and various accidents, being killed by predators, and the ratio of live births to those reaching adulthood was very small when compared to modern times.

Edited by bluescat48, : punct.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 6:25 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 63 of 134 (492255)
12-29-2008 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Peg
12-29-2008 6:29 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
surely a tribe of people would produce more then 300,000 in 40,000 years

anyone who would think otherwise must have rocks in their head


You are missing a great oportunity to learn something new here, if you could stop the name calling for just a minute and try to lissen with an open mind for a change. Hint: populations don't always grow. Sometimes whole species even go extinct. ever heard of it?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 6:29 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 2882 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 64 of 134 (492281)
12-29-2008 7:37 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Granny Magda
12-29-2008 6:43 AM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
granny magada writes:

Mindlessly oversimplified piffle. As anglagard has already pointed out, environmental factors, disease, deaths in childbirth and many other factors limit population growth. Ancient Australia would not have been able to sustain huge populations without agriculture.

what do you class as agriculture? the aboriginals were hunter gatherers...they ate a wide variety of foods and the bush provided more then they needed.

granny magda writes:

Where does that quote come from? Here is the entire text of the tablets. If you really think that the text says what you claim it says, then all it demonstrates is how deeply you are deluding yourself and seeing only what you want to see.

When the assyrian kings library was discovered, they found around 10,000 tablets...they collected up all they could and took them to the british museum. Its from these tablets that we have information about ancient Assyria and its kings and their way of life etc.

the following quote is found on page 48 in smiths book. Smith being one of the interpreters of the tablets.

Chaldean Account of Genesis Page 48 writes:


They say that the first inhabitants of the earth,
glorying in their own strength and size and despising
the gods, undertook to raise a tower whose top should
reach the sky, in the place in which Babylon now
stands; but when it approached the heaven the
winds assisted the gods, and overthrew the work
upon its contrivers, and its ruins are said to be
still at Babylon ; and the gods introduced a diversity
of tongues among men, who till that time had all
spoken the same language ; and a war arose between
Cronos and Titan. The place in which they built
the tower is now called Babylon on account of the
confusion of tongues, for confusion is by the He
brews called Babel. Euseb. Prcep. Evan. lib. ix. ;
Syncel. Chron. xliv. ; Euseb. Chron. xiii.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by Granny Magda, posted 12-29-2008 6:43 AM Granny Magda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 9:14 PM Peg has responded
 Message 71 by bluescat48, posted 12-30-2008 12:20 AM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 75 by fallacycop, posted 12-30-2008 2:22 AM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 76 by PaulK, posted 12-30-2008 3:37 AM Peg has responded
 Message 77 by Granny Magda, posted 12-30-2008 4:56 AM Peg has responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 65 of 134 (492295)
12-29-2008 9:14 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by Peg
12-29-2008 7:37 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
what do you class as agriculture? the aboriginals were hunter gatherers

If they didn't grow their own food then they didn't practice agriculture.

the bush provided more then they needed

Source? How much population growth would this alleged excess support?


soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 7:37 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 9:28 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 2882 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 66 of 134 (492297)
12-29-2008 9:28 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by DrJones*
12-29-2008 9:14 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
they didnt need to practice agriculture because the land produced enough food for them..australia is a huge place

http://pals.dia.wa.gov.au/food.aspx


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 9:14 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 9:33 PM Peg has responded
 Message 74 by fallacycop, posted 12-30-2008 2:18 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 67 of 134 (492298)
12-29-2008 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by Peg
12-29-2008 9:28 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
So you're not going to substantiate your claim:
the bush provided more then they needed

they didnt need to practice agriculture because the land produced enough food for them..australia is a huge place

The issue isn't wether or not the enviroment of Australia allowed to aboriginal peoples to survive (cause they clearly have), it's what population growth rates could the aborignal peoples acheive in Australia's enviroment.


soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 9:28 PM Peg has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 10:01 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 2882 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 68 of 134 (492300)
12-29-2008 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by DrJones*
12-29-2008 9:33 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
what growth rate has the environment permitted over the past 200 years?

like i said, Tasmania itself has grown to 1/2 million in a little over 200 years


This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 9:33 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 69 by Coyote, posted 12-29-2008 10:23 PM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 70 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 10:39 PM Peg has not yet responded
 Message 72 by fallacycop, posted 12-30-2008 2:15 AM Peg has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member (Idle past 58 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 69 of 134 (492302)
12-29-2008 10:23 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Peg
12-29-2008 10:01 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
what growth rate has the environment permitted over the past 200 years?

like i said, Tasmania itself has grown to 1/2 million in a little over 200 years

Population growth is largely dependent on environment and technology.

Early band societies grew to a few tens of thousands in California, while the more complex societies at the time of the European conquest numbered somewhere above 300,000 (some place the figure as high as a million). That area now supports tens of millions.

For each environment and technology there is a limit.

The same holds true for bacteria. If there was no limit you would be acetablulum deep in the little buggers in short order, and the earth would be covered with them miles deep not long after that. Ridiculous of course, as their environment will not permit that kind of growth with their technology.

Why should primitive humans be any different?

Or are you searching for some way to support a young earth with these arguments that you are making?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 10:01 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 1739
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 70 of 134 (492305)
12-29-2008 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Peg
12-29-2008 10:01 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
like i said, Tasmania itself has grown to 1/2 million in a little over 200 years

And how many of those 1/2 million are aboriginals? How many are the descendants of immigrants who used technology to overcome the enviroment?
If you're going to argue that the aboriginal peoples can't have been in australia for 40k+ years because their population is too small then you should be prepared to show what their population growth rate was and how they managed to achieve that.


soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 10:01 PM Peg has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by NosyNed, posted 12-30-2008 2:17 AM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2142 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 71 of 134 (492311)
12-30-2008 12:20 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Peg
12-29-2008 7:37 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
The similarity between the Biblical & Assyrian accounts of the Babel myth proves nothing. Both these peoples are Hamito-Semetic and thus many of their myths would be similar. If they prove the event then why are there no accounts of this in writings from other peoples ie: Sino-Tibetan, Indo-European, Uralo-Altaic, Eskimo-Aleut, Mayan, Polynesian etc.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 7:37 PM Peg has not yet responded

    
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 72 of 134 (492315)
12-30-2008 2:15 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by Peg
12-29-2008 10:01 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
what growth rate has the environment permitted over the past 200 years?
like i said, Tasmania itself has grown to 1/2 million in a little over 200 years

It's still time to turn around and learn something. Hint: populations don't always grow.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 10:01 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8812
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


Message 73 of 134 (492316)
12-30-2008 2:17 AM
Reply to: Message 70 by DrJones*
12-29-2008 10:39 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
And how many of those 1/2 million are aboriginals? How many are the descendants of immigrants who used technology to overcome the enviroment?
If you're going to argue that the aboriginal peoples can't have been in australia for 40k+ years because their population is too small then you should be prepared to show what their population growth rate was and how they managed to achieve that.

And how many immigrated in the last 5 years, 10 years and so on? In other words how many there have nothing to do with the growth from births over 200 years?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by DrJones*, posted 12-29-2008 10:39 PM DrJones* has not yet responded

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 74 of 134 (492317)
12-30-2008 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Peg
12-29-2008 9:28 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
they didnt need to practice agriculture because the land produced enough food for them

*** unsubstantiated assertion alert ***
This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 9:28 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
fallacycop
Member (Idle past 3472 days)
Posts: 692
From: Fortaleza-CE Brazil
Joined: 02-18-2006


Message 75 of 134 (492318)
12-30-2008 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 64 by Peg
12-29-2008 7:37 PM


Re: Complex Issues Don't Need Simplistic Answers
the bush provided more then they needed.

*** unsubstantiated assertion alert ***
This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by Peg, posted 12-29-2008 7:37 PM Peg has not yet responded

  
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