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Author Topic:   Sin
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 151 of 185 (774841)
12-23-2015 3:28 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by ringo
12-23-2015 2:26 PM


Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
I never said that God doesnt do anything...where do you get this from?

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by ringo, posted 12-23-2015 2:26 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 12-23-2015 3:40 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 152 of 185 (774843)
12-23-2015 3:40 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by Phat
12-23-2015 3:28 PM


Re: Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
Phat writes:

I never said that God doesnt do anything...where do you get this from?


You're taking the blame for everything bad that happens, aren't you?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 3:28 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 4:09 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 153 of 185 (774844)
12-23-2015 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by ringo
12-23-2015 3:40 PM


Re: Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
You're taking the blame for everything bad that happens, aren't you?

No, but I play a part. Whether humans have "original" or inborn tendencies to "sin" or not, we are in fact responsible for our actions and reactions. If Jesus does in fact absolve us of our sins, it does not mean that we are passive observers. You may assert that lacking evidence of Jesus role in the process God becomes spiritually impotent --a valid argument for an atheist/agnostic, I suppose.

The bottom line, however, is that we become the decisions that we make.

To be fair, I dont take all of the responsibility for anything bad that happens in my life nor do I take all of the credit for the good that is produced.

Lets call it a communion. For me, it is between God and willing humanity. For you, it may simply be a communion among humanity.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by ringo, posted 12-23-2015 3:40 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 157 by ringo, posted 04-27-2018 12:10 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 154 of 185 (831887)
04-26-2018 3:38 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Tangle
12-21-2015 3:51 AM


Re: On Topic Joke
perhaps you have never been "crushed" yet.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Tangle, posted 12-21-2015 3:51 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by Tangle, posted 04-26-2018 4:25 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6344
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 155 of 185 (831891)
04-26-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by Phat
04-26-2018 3:38 PM


Re: On Topic Joke
Phat writes:

perhaps you have never been "crushed" yet.

Can't say that I have. But also I have no idea what being crushed is and what it's got to do with this god thing. Why would god allow someone to be 'crushed?'

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by Phat, posted 04-26-2018 3:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 156 of 185 (831895)
04-26-2018 5:58 PM


Sin has got to be about the very least important or interesting topic possible.
Sin?

Fuggitaboutit, it's none of your business.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 157 of 185 (831918)
04-27-2018 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 153 by Phat
12-23-2015 4:09 PM


Re: Either Fall on the rock or the Rock shall fall on you
Phat writes:

If Jesus does in fact absolve us of our sins, it does not mean that we are passive observers.


Doesn't it? Where's the "communion" if we make our own decisions and Jesus/God decides to forgive us? Seems like two separate processes to me.

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Phat, posted 12-23-2015 4:09 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 12:52 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 158 of 185 (831923)
04-27-2018 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 157 by ringo
04-27-2018 12:10 PM


Is It On God or On Us?
I had to look up other peoples perspectives on this issue. In the final analysis, it is human consensus on whether or not God exists and our role as humans in the process of communion that takes place.
Faith Forum: Why does God let us make bad decisions?

Of course, the way that I learned was that God took the sins of the world upon Himself so as to absolve us of the consequences...which were out of hand from the beginning.
Critics (such as you) would argue that God caused the liability in the first place....almost like shooting someone and then becoming their Doctor to patch them back up! One could argue that no God is necessary in order for humans to experience challenges and setbacks in life...but the question then becomes whether or not God is ever actually necessary!

You seem to have concluded that there is no evidence that a God exists, then commenting on the nature and character of the God whom humans market---insisting that the book (should)be taken seriously in order to indict the God within its pages.


Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 157 by ringo, posted 04-27-2018 12:10 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 159 by ringo, posted 04-27-2018 1:14 PM Phat has responded
 Message 162 by Tangle, posted 04-27-2018 4:25 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 159 of 185 (831925)
04-27-2018 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
04-27-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:

You seem to have concluded that there is no evidence that a God exists....


As I keep telling you, I see no evidence of a "communion". If God was important, why wouldn't there be some improvement in the people who think He's important?

Phat writes:

... insisting that the book (should)be taken seriously in order to indict the God within its pages.


Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages. Why cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you don't?

An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 12:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 1:39 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 11563
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 160 of 185 (831926)
04-27-2018 1:39 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by ringo
04-27-2018 1:14 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
ringo writes:

Why cherry-pick what you like and ignore what you don't?

because the whole point (or idea) of a book is human interpretation and consensus of the topic within. What difference does it make if we interpret God the way we see Him today rather than simply go with the interpretation of thousands of years ago?

I'm not saying we are any closer to the truth, but no further from it either.\

Go ahead...give Him your best shot. Invent/describe a God Who created all seen and unseen, chooses to basically leave us alone and let us "grow up", and is not directly responsible for evil.

Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages.
Perhaps not in your mind.
Remember, evidence cannot count in these cases since the character that we are seeking is for all practical purposes invisible.

Chance as a real force is a myth. It has no basis in reality and no place in scientific inquiry. For science and philosophy to continue to advance in knowledge, chance must be demythologized once and for all. –RC Sproul
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." –Mark Twain "
~"If that's not sufficient for you go soak your head."~Faith
Paul was probably SO soaked in prayer nobody else has ever equaled him.~Faith :)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by ringo, posted 04-27-2018 1:14 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 161 by jar, posted 04-27-2018 2:06 PM Phat has responded
 Message 165 by ringo, posted 04-28-2018 11:43 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 30934
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 161 of 185 (831927)
04-27-2018 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
04-27-2018 1:39 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:

Go ahead...give Him your best shot. Invent/describe a God Who created all seen and unseen, chooses to basically leave us alone and let us "grow up", and is not directly responsible for evil.

Why. Why give God a free pass?

Edited by jar, : appalin spallin


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 1:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 167 by Phat, posted 04-28-2018 4:36 PM jar has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6344
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 162 of 185 (831931)
04-27-2018 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by Phat
04-27-2018 12:52 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:

In the final analysis, it is human consensus on whether or not God exists

Eh? Cobblers. God exists or doesn't exist regardless of a human consensus or otherwise.

and our role as humans in the process of communion that takes place.

This is just religious gobbledegook. I never understand any of this in-house jargon and I suspect no-one does - you just get used to spouting it.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 12:52 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 04-27-2018 6:22 PM Tangle has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 30161
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 163 of 185 (831932)
04-27-2018 6:22 PM
Reply to: Message 162 by Tangle
04-27-2018 4:25 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Just took a look at this thread and find you wrongly imputing a quote to me again, this time something Phat said. How does this happen? I don't even think I've ever posted to this thread.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 162 by Tangle, posted 04-27-2018 4:25 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 164 by Tangle, posted 04-28-2018 2:09 AM Faith has not yet responded

    
Tangle
Member
Posts: 6344
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 164 of 185 (831952)
04-28-2018 2:09 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Faith
04-27-2018 6:22 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Faith writes:

Just took a look at this thread and find you wrongly imputing a quote to me again, this time something Phat said. How does this happen? I don't even think I've ever posted to this thread.

My apologies, I've changed the post.

Why does it happen? Probably because I'd just replied to a post you made and still have you in my head.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Faith, posted 04-27-2018 6:22 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 15737
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 165 of 185 (831986)
04-28-2018 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 160 by Phat
04-27-2018 1:39 PM


Re: Is It On God or On Us?
Phat writes:

because the whole point (or idea) of a book is human interpretation and consensus of the topic within.


What consensus? That's the problem with making it up to suit yourself. No two people have the same interpretation.

Phat writes:

Go ahead...give Him your best shot. Invent/describe a God Who created all seen and unseen, chooses to basically leave us alone and let us "grow up", and is not directly responsible for evil.


How is that possible? Isn't evil part of "all seen and unseen"?

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

Characters like Jesus don't even exist outside its pages.


Perhaps not in your mind.

Not in reality.

Phat writes:

Remember, evidence cannot count in these cases since the character that we are seeking is for all practical purposes invisible.


Evidence always counts.

But you're missing the point. You believe in Jesus but the only place Jesus exists is in the Book. You choose to believe that part of the Book, but you throw away the parts you don't like. On what basis do you believe in the Jesus of the Bible but not the God of the Bible?


An honest discussion is more of a peer review than a pep rally. My toughest critics here are the people who agree with me. -- ringo

This message is a reply to:
 Message 160 by Phat, posted 04-27-2018 1:39 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by Phat, posted 04-28-2018 4:29 PM ringo has responded

  
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