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Author Topic:   Spirituality
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 136 of 141 (543283)
01-16-2010 9:53 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by Shane20
01-16-2010 7:21 PM


Hi, Shane.
Can I request that you clean up your grammar a little bit? Your posts are hard to understand.
Shane20 writes:
Well perhaps your constant to exposure to the search of your spirituality caused it to enclose it self.
I have no idea what you just wrote.
-----
Shane20 writes:
I dont know your personal life so i can be wrong...
Personal advice:
If you have to start your comment with a disclaimer like this, you should probably refrain from making the comment until after you've gathered more information.
-----
Shane20 writes:
but if your parents made you be apart of religion growing maybe your sub concuss grew sick of it and now seeks enlightenment through more of a natural aspect.
"Enlightenment" is such a tacky word. I just want to know what a spirit is.
-----
Shane20 writes:
Like someone raised to being "in order" would be more likely to rebel then some one who was not. Saying that maybe it was not a bestowal but you were force fed maybe?
You just pulled this out of the air, man!
Maybe this. Maybe that. Maybe a lot of things. "Maybe" is just a way of rationalizing away unfavorable arguments and evidence. It does nothing to explain what a spirit is or why my spirituality is impacted by a chemical imbalance in my brain.
There's no controversy over what my disorder is. There is no reason to provide me with an alternative explanation for the reason my brain is different from everyone else's.
What needs to be explained is what is a spirit?
And why is it influenced by the chemistry of a human brain?

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by Shane20, posted 01-16-2010 7:21 PM Shane20 has not replied

  
Blue Jay
Member (Idle past 2698 days)
Posts: 2843
From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts
Joined: 02-04-2008


Message 137 of 141 (543284)
01-16-2010 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Shane20
01-16-2010 9:47 PM


Hi, Shane.
Shane20 writes:
I know its distilled in you that reality is a number.
Nice imagery. You need to work on your meter and rhyme, though.
-----
Shane20 writes:
This phenomena happens and very much exists.
What phenomenon?
Emotions? Inspiration? Passion?
Nobody is disputing that these phenomena exist.
What Granny disputes is your explanation for the cause of these phenomena.
What I am doing is asking you to explicitly explain what you think the cause of these phenomena is.
I recognize that you call this cause "spirit," and that many millions of other people likewise call it "spirit"; but, other than a name and some vague references to emotions and passions, I have never been given a clear description, definition or explanation of it.
Is it an invisible, undetectable type of substance?
Is it a file saved on a giant, cosmic computer?
Is it an unexplained sensory perception?
You can't just keep hiding behind its ineffability. If you can't provide a meaningful explanation for what it is, then you don't really have a case against it being a side effect of brain chemistry, as Granny Magda argues.

-Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus)
Darwin loves you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Shane20, posted 01-16-2010 9:47 PM Shane20 has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 138 of 141 (543287)
01-16-2010 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Shane20
01-16-2010 9:47 PM


Shane,
I know its distilled in you that reality is a number.
That is not my opinion. In fact, I'm not even sure what you're talking about there.
I believe that an objective reality exists. I also believe that no matter how we choose to feel about this reality, what is real will remain real and what is unreal will continue to be unreal.
Spirit is either real or it is not.
But how do people manage to move past that like look at tarot cards or wigi boards. This phenomena happens and very much exists.
I've used both tarot cards and a Ouija board before now. Ouija boards can be said to "work" in that they produce an effect - the planchette will move around and spell out words (although never providing any information that the players themselves could not know). The questions to ask are whether that effect is connected to any "spiritual" cause and whether that effect can be explained by reference to observable material causes.
In the case of Ouija boards there is a rational, non-spiritual explanation - the Ideomotor Effect. Since Ouija boards behave exactly as if they were merely ideomotor effects, we have a strong, observable, objective, repeatable and material explanation for why Ouija boards appear to work.
Why would we reject this in favour of an explanation that offers no evidence other than a vague gesture towards "spirituality"?
Just because our ability as a people we havent been able to record it does not mean its not there.
But with no objective evidence in favour, you leave me with no reason to suppose that there is a soul in the first place. In fact, since you seem unable to clearly define what you mean by "spirit", I am left wondering what it might be that I'm even supposed to believe in...
As for your own experiment go around and ask people if they feel a spirit with in them write all the ones that say yes and all the ones that say no then i think you will see your answer.
What!? That's a very silly idea. Reality is not a democracy. The spirit is either real or it is not; taking a straw poll won't alter reality one little bit.
Frankly, I suggest that you reconsider some of your basic ways of thinking about how the world works.
If you have to think about your own spirit then so be it and when you feel the enlightenment you will know its unexplainable
You could say that about absolutely anything. Ultimately it's just a refuge for a failed argument.
Mutate and Survive
Edited by Granny Magda, : Quote box error.

"A curious aspect of the theory of evolution is that everybody thinks he understands it." - Jacques Monod

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Shane20, posted 01-16-2010 9:47 PM Shane20 has not replied

  
Shane20
Junior Member (Idle past 5184 days)
Posts: 14
Joined: 01-15-2010


Message 139 of 141 (543288)
01-16-2010 10:44 PM


Grammar aside the spirit is real this has been a day long discussion and i have grown a little weary sorry. But the only way for any of you to see this realizations is for it to happen the facts are with in you. and it is your lose if you cant feel it i will continue tomorrow

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 140 of 141 (543297)
01-17-2010 4:25 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by Shane20
01-16-2010 9:47 PM


Shane20 writes:
As for your own experiment go around and ask people if they feel a spirit with in them write all the ones that say yes and all the ones that say no then i think you will see your answer.
So, if I were to go around holding a bunny, and asking people "is this bunny a male?" then the bunny will actually be a male or not depending on the answers I get?

I hunt for the truth
I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Shane20, posted 01-16-2010 9:47 PM Shane20 has not replied

  
Larni
Member (Idle past 164 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 141 of 141 (543301)
01-17-2010 5:58 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by Shane20
01-16-2010 7:56 PM


The argument is like saying how can you prove happiness with a smile?
No. This is not true. We can measure happiness.
We can't measure the spirit.
You will reach a dead end if you keep avoiding the need to demonstrate quantitatively the 'spirit'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Shane20, posted 01-16-2010 7:56 PM Shane20 has not replied

  
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