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Author Topic:   Is the bible authoritive and truly inspired?
Panda
Member (Idle past 3713 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 376 of 386 (586872)
10-15-2010 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Nuggin
10-15-2010 9:48 AM


Re: Authority and Inspiration
Nuggin writes:
Frankly, this argument that the Bible was inspired by Satan and all acts within it are really his work but written to pretend that they are God makes a lot more sense than the mainline story which is 100% contradictory to the claims the book is making.
This is a really good explanation of the the 'issues' I have with the bible.
Maybe this would make a good thread topic...
Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Nuggin, posted 10-15-2010 9:48 AM Nuggin has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 377 of 386 (586879)
10-15-2010 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 373 by jaywill
10-15-2010 9:15 AM


Re: Authority and Inspiration
You entertain a vain hope. The Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ in another form.
Certainly the Holy Spirit has let people think that for the last couple of thousand years --- apart, of course, from the Unitarians, to whom he vouchsafed the truth.
And if you don't like that conclusion, you have no basis to argue against it. If the very content of the Bible, let alone its interpretation, is something that the Holy Spirit can let most Christians be wrong about for a couple of thousand years, then where is the solid ground on which you can stand? According to your own theology, it is perfectly possible for devout Christians to be perfectly wrong about such subjects.
You have to speak for yourself. You open wide your potty mouth and blaspheme the deity of Christ.
Whereas someone from a different tradition of scriptural interpretation would tell you that you are blaspheming by asserting the divinity of Christ.
And the Holy Spirit sits on his Holy Hindquarters for two thousand years without producing some sort of definitive Holy Statement.

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jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 378 of 386 (586882)
10-15-2010 11:15 AM


The Bible is the work of Man.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-15-2010 3:44 PM jar has seen this message but not replied

Dawn Bertot
Member
Posts: 3571
Joined: 11-23-2007


Message 379 of 386 (586933)
10-15-2010 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by jar
10-15-2010 11:15 AM


The Bible is the work of Man.
Your right, a work of man through the inspiration of God. As usual, you only got things half right. Getting thins only partially correct, along with completely backwards and nonsensical, seems to be theme of yours
You havent actually debated publically have you, that would be a hoot to witness, not to mentioned being your opponent. I dont think I could stop laughing long enough to make a rebuttal
Dawn Bertot

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by Dr Adequate, posted 10-15-2010 3:55 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied
 Message 383 by bluescat48, posted 10-16-2010 12:50 AM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 380 of 386 (586935)
10-15-2010 3:55 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Dawn Bertot
10-15-2010 3:44 PM


You havent actually debated publically have you, that would be a hoot to witness, not to mentioned being your opponent. I dont think I could stop laughing long enough to make a rebuttal
You are quite right. Jar, who has made a mere 17757 posts on this forum, has never debated publicly. But if he ever does so, what rings you could run around him --- if only you could get him to publicly state his opinions! But he is so reticent when it comes to that.
So for now you will have to content yourself with daydreams of what a wonderful rebuttal you could make if only he would ever publicly state his views, instead of keeping them to himself as is now the case.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-15-2010 3:44 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

jaywill
Member (Idle past 1941 days)
Posts: 4519
From: VA USA
Joined: 12-05-2005


Message 381 of 386 (586940)
10-15-2010 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 362 by purpledawn
10-14-2010 9:43 AM


Re: Authority and Inspiration
I'm sure you don't, but the fact is that there are significant discrepancies between the older manuscripts and the new ones, which means there are discrepancies between some versions of the Bible that Christians use for their religion as you can see in the parallel link.
In the thousands of copies of all or part of the New Testament there have been said to be about 200,000 "errors" that have crept in.
There are about 10,000 places where these 200,000 variants occur. The crucial question is: "How significant are these 10,000 places?"
Westcott and Hort estimated that 1/8 th (one eighth) of all the variants have any weight. That greater majority are mechanical matters of spelling and style. They calculate that on the whole about 1/60th (one-sixtieth) rise above "trivialities". These 1/60 could be classified as "substantial variations".
This would calculate to about 98.33 % of the New Testament being texturally pure.
Another scholar, Abbot Ezra came to a similar conclusion. Abbot calculated 95% of the readings are "various" rather than "rival". That is 19/20 (95 perent) of the remainder are variants of so little importance that their adoption or rejection makes no appreciable difference in the sense of the passage.
A third scholar, Philip Schaff comes of with these percentages. The count of variations known in his day were about 150,000. Of these 150,000 copyist descrepencies, only 400 affected the sense of a passage. And of these 400 instances only 50 were of any real significance. And of these 50 not one affected "an article of faith or a precept of duty which is not abundantly sustained by other and undoubted passages, or by the whole tenor of Scripture"
Then we have A.T. Robertson calculation that real concern of textural criticism is with a "thousandth part of the entire text" of the New Testament. This would render the New Testament 99.0 percent free from substantial or consequential error.
Benjamin Warfield agrees that "the great mass of the New Testament ... has been transmitted to us with no, or next to no variations". That is variations of any substancial consequences to the major doctrines of the New Testament.
In fact, the greater number of variants has the opposite effect as might be expected by the skeptic of our faith. The large number of variants supplies a means of checking on those variants. It is ironic that the large number of variants causes the corruption of the text to provide the means for its own correction.
In this post I have quoted loosely from the book "A General Introduction to the Bible" by Giesler and Nix, published by Moody Press.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.
Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by purpledawn, posted 10-14-2010 9:43 AM purpledawn has not replied

purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3458 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 382 of 386 (586981)
10-16-2010 12:43 AM


My Summary
According to Catholicism the Bible's authority rests on the authority of the Church, not the other way. Protestants on the other hand, abandoned tradition as an authority and turned to the Bible. Oddly enough, what the Protestants turn to as an authority was put together by the authority of the Catholic Church.
So while the writings in the Bible are inspired by the needs of the people, the Bible only has authority that man bestows upon it.
The Bible only has authority when it suits their purpose.

The Savior said There is no sin, but it is you who make sin when you do the things that are like the nature of adultery, which is called sin. --Gospel of Mary

bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4190 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 383 of 386 (586983)
10-16-2010 12:50 AM
Reply to: Message 379 by Dawn Bertot
10-15-2010 3:44 PM


Inspiration = Imagination
our right, a work of man through the inspiration of God
It is actually the imagination of the Bronze age farmers & hunters that is the inspiration.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Dawn Bertot, posted 10-15-2010 3:44 PM Dawn Bertot has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 384 by AdminPD, posted 10-16-2010 2:26 AM bluescat48 has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 384 of 386 (586988)
10-16-2010 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 383 by bluescat48
10-16-2010 12:50 AM


Summations Only Please
Participants: Please post summations only please.
Thanks
AdminPD

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 385 of 386 (587188)
10-17-2010 2:08 PM
Reply to: Message 341 by jaywill
10-13-2010 7:26 PM


Re: Those who are being saved.
You must be kidding. I consider Unitarianism very close to biblical Christianity. As a Unitarian your main squabbles are with the Trinity.
He said utilitarian not Unitarian. Two completely different things.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 341 by jaywill, posted 10-13-2010 7:26 PM jaywill has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 386 of 386 (587221)
10-17-2010 7:02 PM


Topic Closed
Summations are done
So stow the prose,
No more discussion
It's time to close.
Finis
See you in another thread.
AdminPD
Magic Wand

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