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Author Topic:   If you were God, what kind of God would you be?
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 211 of 247 (522619)
09-04-2009 9:30 AM
Reply to: Message 210 by Drosophilla
09-04-2009 9:21 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
Drosophilla writes:
You're a real classic Peg I have to hand you that...tell me if you recognise the tyrannical abuse of power in human individuals such as Pol Pot, Stalin and Hitler...how does it completely escape you when your God does exactly the same?
hey dont laugh, you were the one who said the atheists act with morals
I do understand that there is tyrannical abuses of power, but God does not deal with anyone this way. He executes his judicial decisions in a righteous way.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 210 by Drosophilla, posted 09-04-2009 9:21 AM Drosophilla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 212 by hooah212002, posted 09-04-2009 9:33 AM Peg has not replied
 Message 215 by Drosophilla, posted 09-04-2009 9:58 AM Peg has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 212 of 247 (522621)
09-04-2009 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Peg
09-04-2009 9:30 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
He executes his judicial decisions in a righteous way.
by righteously destroying those heathen babies!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 9:30 AM Peg has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 213 of 247 (522628)
09-04-2009 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Peg
09-04-2009 8:52 AM


Re: God's Morality
but there has been not been 1 war he has supported since the time of Jesus christ.
Sure He has! The Russian-Circassian War, the Albigensian Crusade, the Korean War, the Paraguayan War of the Triple Alliance - I'm just not telling which side He took in those.
How the hell do you know, Peg, whether God has supported a war that isn't recorded in your Book?
And answer me about Abraham and Isaac. If God asked Abe to "kill me a son," why can't he ask you?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 8:52 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:43 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 214 of 247 (522631)
09-04-2009 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 207 by Peg
09-04-2009 8:52 AM


Re: God's Morality
In some way, you do have to use your judgement. If God is telling people to put their swords away, love their enemies and stop with all the warring, how do you think it applies to soldiers?
So all soldiers are immoral according to you?
I want to know how I can know gods objective absolute morality. But all the answers you give me suggest that in practical terms your answers are the same are those that moral relativists would give.
I.e. go with your conscience, morality is a product of culture and circumstance etc. etc. etc.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 8:52 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:53 AM Straggler has replied

  
Drosophilla
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 172
From: Doncaster, yorkshire, UK
Joined: 08-25-2009


Message 215 of 247 (522633)
09-04-2009 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 211 by Peg
09-04-2009 9:30 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
hey dont laugh, you were the one who said the atheists act with morals
I do understand that there is tyrannical abuses of power, but God does not deal with anyone this way. He executes his judicial decisions in a righteous way.
As a group atheists DO act with moral intention. You can't uphold individuals and hang a world philosophy on their individual actions. Stalin was an atheist and a monster. Hitler believed in God and was a monster...you wouldn't indict your God on the actions of Hitler would you?...any more than you should indict atheism on the actions of Stalin.
But your God stands accused of the horrors he had comitted by his own words/actions - the words of the bible.
Tell me again how 'his righteousness' involves killing babies and children - i keep missing your point on this one (probably because you haven't made one yet)...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 211 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 9:30 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 11:01 AM Drosophilla has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 216 of 247 (522640)
09-04-2009 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 213 by Coragyps
09-04-2009 9:53 AM


Re: God's Morality
Coragyps writes:
Sure He has! The Russian-Circassian War, the Albigensian Crusade, the Korean War, the Paraguayan War of the Triple Alliance - I'm just not telling which side He took in those. How the hell do you know, Peg, whether God has supported a war that isn't recorded in your Book?
becasue Jesus showed that the purpose of the kingdom was to bring about the end of the wars of the nations.
Jesus showed that all who would live under the kingdom arrangement would do so by living in peace and loving their enemies.
Also, God does not take sides in wars because he views all mankind as one group, not as separate nations. he does not suffer from nationalism the way we do. He is not partial.
Coragyps writes:
And answer me about Abraham and Isaac. If God asked Abe to "kill me a son," why can't he ask you?
This was asked of Abraham, but it proved to be a test of faith and not an actual request. God has never asked it from anyone else and he never will.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Coragyps, posted 09-04-2009 9:53 AM Coragyps has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 217 by hooah212002, posted 09-04-2009 10:50 AM Peg has replied
 Message 225 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-08-2009 8:58 PM Peg has replied
 Message 231 by Dr Adequate, posted 09-10-2009 11:53 AM Peg has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 217 of 247 (522642)
09-04-2009 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 216 by Peg
09-04-2009 10:43 AM


Re: God's Morality
Also, God does not take sides in wars because he views all mankind as one group, not as separate nations. he does not suffer from nationalism the way we do. He is not partial.
So the whole deal about the Israelites being the chosen people is bullshit? Allegorical?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:43 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:57 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 218 of 247 (522645)
09-04-2009 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Straggler
09-04-2009 9:57 AM


Re: God's Morality
Straggler writes:
So all soldiers are immoral according to you?
i did not say anything about soldiers being immoral. I asked you how 'putting your swords away & loving your enemies' applies to soldiers
are you judging them as immoral becuase they have not put their swords away?
Straggler writes:
I want to know how I can know gods objective absolute morality.
Gods objective absolute morality is summed up in 5 words
"Love your neighbour as yourself"
if we all did this, then there would be no wars. Love is Gods absolute morality.
Straggler writes:
But all the answers you give me suggest that in practical terms your answers are the same are those that moral relativists would give.
I.e. go with your conscience, morality is a product of culture and circumstance etc. etc. etc.
i didnt realise that i was coming across that way

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Straggler, posted 09-04-2009 9:57 AM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Straggler, posted 09-08-2009 7:02 PM Peg has replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 219 of 247 (522647)
09-04-2009 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 217 by hooah212002
09-04-2009 10:50 AM


Re: God's Morality
hooah212002 writes:
So the whole deal about the Israelites being the chosen people is bullshit? Allegorical?
actually, anyone could join the isrealites in worship. The nation was not exclusive to natural born jews.
So, even though God chose that nation to represent him, he did not make approach to him exclusive to them only. He accepted proselytes from all nations.
After the establishment of christianity, then Christ became the chosen means of approach to God and any man from any nation could become a christian also. So he was never impartial, he merely used 1 nation as the mean of approach to him in ancient times.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by hooah212002, posted 09-04-2009 10:50 AM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 220 of 247 (522648)
09-04-2009 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by Drosophilla
09-04-2009 9:58 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
Drosophilla writes:
But your God stands accused of the horrors he had comitted by his own words/actions - the words of the bible.
'accused' yes, understood - no.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by Drosophilla, posted 09-04-2009 9:58 AM Drosophilla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Drosophilla, posted 09-04-2009 11:46 AM Peg has not replied

  
Drosophilla
Member (Idle past 3641 days)
Posts: 172
From: Doncaster, yorkshire, UK
Joined: 08-25-2009


Message 221 of 247 (522663)
09-04-2009 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 220 by Peg
09-04-2009 11:01 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
Pegs reply to Coragyps:
This was asked of Abraham, but it proved to be a test of faith and not an actual request. God has never asked it from anyone else and he never will.
A test of faith...the mind boggles!!! And what pyschological scarring was left with poor Isaac? Tell me Peg are you a parent? If you are (and hypothetical question now if you are not)- would you put your son or daughter on a pyre of wood and be ready to set light to it...even if you truly believed God would intervene and say "Only kidding - it's a test of faith my child"? Because if you would you deserve to have your child hate you forever.
Peg's reply to me in msg 220:
'accused' yes, understood - no.
Oh - i agree totally. We accuse your God of the horrors recorded in the bible - and you don't understand the moral implications one little bit. Perhaps I need to shout in captitals at you as though you are a small child:
THERE IS NO EXCUSE ON EARTH OR IN THE HEAVENS THAT YOU CAN COME UP WITH TO JUSTIFY THE ATTROCITIES IN THE BIBLE. THE DEATHS OF THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE CANNOT BE JUSTIFIED IN ANY WAY BY SANE RATIONAL MINDS - PERHAPS YOUR GOD IS INSANE!
Mad, Bad or Sad - which one is he Peg for he is surely one of them...
If I were God I would have no stupid fighting over my existance!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 11:01 AM Peg has not replied

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 4189 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 222 of 247 (522697)
09-04-2009 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Peg
09-04-2009 9:07 AM


Re: Rape in the Bible
Those people chose to war with God...some of them surrendered and they became a part of isreal, so how can that be unjust on Gods part.
Chose war? They were attacked? God in this case was just like Hitler, Tojo, Stalin, Pol Pot, Bin Laden or George W. Bush, A warmonger.

There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002
Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969
Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008

This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 9:07 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 11:44 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


Message 223 of 247 (522794)
09-04-2009 11:44 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by bluescat48
09-04-2009 1:53 PM


Re: Rape in the Bible
bluescat48 writes:
Chose war? They were attacked? God in this case was just like Hitler, Tojo, Stalin, Pol Pot, Bin Laden or George W. Bush, A warmonger.
explain the cananite cities of Gibeon and Chephirah and Beeroth and Kiriath-jearim.
the cheifs of these cities sent a delegation to request peace with Isreal...they did trick Joshua because they told them they were from a far away land, but even after they were found out in their lie, Isreal kept the covenent in place and did not war with them... infact, when other cannanite cities heard about how these ones had made peace with Isreal, they wanted to kill them. Who saved them from death?
The isrealites protected those Canaanite cities from other cannanites who were intent on destroying them. This is because God always acts in righteousness, mercy and Justice.
You can read the whole account in Joshua chpt 9.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by bluescat48, posted 09-04-2009 1:53 PM bluescat48 has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 224 of 247 (523192)
09-08-2009 7:02 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Peg
09-04-2009 10:53 AM


Re: God's Morality
i did not say anything about soldiers being immoral. I asked you how 'putting your swords away & loving your enemies' applies to soldiers
are you judging them as immoral becuase they have not put their swords away?
No.I am asking you how I can access this objective and absolute morality that you tell me exists in order to answer such questions?
If you cannot then I can only conclude that whether or not such a morality exists we are all better off assuming tha it doesn't and instead working out how best to get on together regardless of the potential existence of this objective and absolute morality.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:53 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Peg, posted 09-09-2009 7:50 AM Straggler has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 225 of 247 (523206)
09-08-2009 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Peg
09-04-2009 10:43 AM


Re: God's Morality
God does not take sides in wars because he views all mankind as one group, not as separate nations. he does not suffer from nationalism the way we do. He is not partial.
That's an interesting theory considering half of the bible is about how God is completely partial to Israel, his chosen one's, the apple of his eye, etc, etc. He commanded Israel to destroy any nation that got in the way of his plan, any nation who he deemed sinful and corrupt, any nation that worshiped false gods, including Israelites itself which defiled Israel's purpose.

"The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms." - Samual Adams

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Peg, posted 09-04-2009 10:43 AM Peg has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Peg, posted 09-09-2009 7:58 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
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