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Author Topic:   That boat don't float
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15738
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 421 of 453 (664079)
05-28-2012 9:49 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Waste and Caring for animals
16,000 animals may not have been needed given the rapid microevolutionary rates that we see today, and would allow them to rapidly branch out into the varieties we see today.

But when AiG postulate that a mere 8000 species would have sufficed, they've already taken creationist fantasies of superduperevolution into account.


This message is a reply to:
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Panda
Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 422 of 453 (664083)
05-28-2012 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 415 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 8:58 PM


Not enough room.
A single cow eats ~15000 lbs of hay a year.
This would require 1000 cubic feet to store all that hay.

A single cow also drinks ~5000 gallons of water per year.
That would require 900 cubic feet to store all that water.

And that is just one cow.


CRYSTALS!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 415 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 8:58 PM Jzyehoshua has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 425 by jar, posted 05-28-2012 10:04 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply
 Message 427 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 10:07 PM Panda has responded

  
Jzyehoshua
Inactive Member


Message 423 of 453 (664084)
05-28-2012 10:01 PM
Reply to: Message 420 by fearandloathing
05-28-2012 9:45 PM


Re: Waste and Caring for animals
What about all the plants the flood destroyed. Where did the olive branch come from? Even if Noah carried seed and seedlings it would still be a problem feeding all the animals until the first harvest. Of course Ham and AiG can always play the supernatural card.

Well, there are three things to consider.

(1) Noah was commanded to take all food that could be eaten as provisions, thus presumably including seeds. (Genesis 6:21)
(2) Noah brought 7 of each clean animal on board the Ark, likely for a reason. (Genesis 7:2-3) Clean vs. Unclean was a way of determining which animals were good for food, thus the animals themselves were provisions - faster breeding ones like rabbits may have provided food for other animals. (Leviticus 11:47)
(3) Some seeds could survive 150 days to re-germinate. The rain itself only lasted 40 days (Genesis 7:12). The waters themselves lasted 150 days before settling to where the Ark could rest. (Genesis 8:3-4)


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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 5749
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 424 of 453 (664085)
05-28-2012 10:02 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Waste and Caring for animals
like the Easter Island statues and Stonehenge we still don't have an explanation for either

Yes we do.

16,000 animals may not have been needed given the rapid microevolutionary rates that we see today, and would allow them to rapidly branch out into the varieties we see today.

You fundies are so funny. You need to go to the same classes as buz to learn what evidence is.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 425 of 453 (664086)
05-28-2012 10:04 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Panda
05-28-2012 9:58 PM


Re: Not enough room.
And cows are clean animals so there were fourteen of them suckers, 26,600 cubic feet of storage just for cows.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Panda, posted 05-28-2012 9:58 PM Panda has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5643
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 426 of 453 (664087)
05-28-2012 10:05 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 9:34 PM


Re: Waste and Caring for animals
Sorry, that's nonsense.

You can come up with all the "what ifs" you want, but the simple fact is that the Noah story doesn't add up.

As the title of this thread reads, "That boat don't float."

Why is it so important to you to try and make that myth plausible? Folks trying to say it all happened as written have to go to such extremes as to be laughable! Why can't you just realize it is an ancient tribal myth and move on?

And by the way, I still have four horses that could help you understand the magnitude of the feeding/scooping problem. Let me know when you're available for a few days.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 9:34 PM Jzyehoshua has acknowledged this reply

  
Jzyehoshua
Inactive Member


Message 427 of 453 (664088)
05-28-2012 10:07 PM
Reply to: Message 422 by Panda
05-28-2012 9:58 PM


Re: Not enough room.
A single cow eats ~15000 lbs of hay a year.
This would require 1000 cubic feet to store all that hay.
A single cow also drinks ~5000 gallons of water per year.
That would require 900 cubic feet to store all that water.

And that is just one cow.

That is a really good point, I have to admit. I suppose you could end up with some pretty skinny cows that had to go on diets by the end, but otherwise, I'm not sure there's much explanation that wouldn't offend people who dislike Jesus' "loaves and fish" miracles. Don't know how that'd be explained without something supernatural.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 422 by Panda, posted 05-28-2012 9:58 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 428 by Panda, posted 05-28-2012 10:28 PM Jzyehoshua has responded
 Message 429 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-28-2012 10:30 PM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 428 of 453 (664092)
05-28-2012 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 10:07 PM


Re: Not enough room.
Jzyehoshua writes:

That is a really good point, I have to admit. I suppose you could end up with some pretty skinny cows that had to go on diets by the end, but otherwise, I'm not sure there's much explanation that wouldn't offend people who dislike Jesus' "loaves and fish" miracles.


And as jar pointed out, there are 7 cows.
Then there are the rhinos and the giraffes and the hippos and the elephants and the camels....

Jzyehoshua writes:

Don't know how that'd be explained without something supernatural.


Then it makes no sense for you to even try and find scientific support for your beliefs.
Because when you hit an insurmountable problem you simply hand-wave it away with "god-did-it-with-magic" - a "deus ex machina", if you will.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


CRYSTALS!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 427 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 10:07 PM Jzyehoshua has responded

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15738
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 429 of 453 (664093)
05-28-2012 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 10:07 PM


Re: Not enough room.
Well, sure, add a miracle if you like. One guy on these forums explained that everything would fit on the Ark because God miraculously made it bigger on the inside than on the outside.

You can prop up anything with enough miracles. God just miraculously made the sky pink with green spots. Why didn't we notice it? Because he also miraculously made us all see it as being blue still.

In the end, though, you wind up with something which looks like the Omphalos hypothesis but without its elegant simplicity --- Omphalos as designed by Rube Goldberg. As with the RATE project ...


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 28667
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 430 of 453 (664094)
05-28-2012 10:32 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by Panda
05-28-2012 10:28 PM


Re: Not enough room.
And as jar pointed out, there are 7 cows.

Fourteen cows, male and female remember.

'Course God cudda told Noah take one bull and six heifers if he'd thought it out.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
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Jzyehoshua
Inactive Member


Message 431 of 453 (664113)
05-29-2012 1:47 AM
Reply to: Message 428 by Panda
05-28-2012 10:28 PM


Re: Not enough room.
Then it makes no sense for you to even try and find scientific support for your beliefs.
Because when you hit an insurmountable problem you simply hand-wave it away with "god-did-it-with-magic" - a "deus ex machina", if you will.

It means I've encountered one question I don't have an answer for. Just because Evolutionists discard their theory of Evolution every time they encounter a problem with it they can't explain, doesn't mean I have to abandon my beliefs just because I've found one problem I can't yet explain.

My point is, there are puzzles scientists can't explain on occasion. They just assume they need to keep looking. I never seem to see them discard Evolutionary Theory or other theories when this occurs.

Likewise, I have found a single potentially difficult problem. I am not so confident in my intelligence to think I've fully understood the issue to consider all alternatives. Could it be a miracle? Yes. Could it be some other physical explanation I haven't considered? Yes. Could it be what AIG was saying, some sort of trap door setup allowing waste to fall down to a lower floor? I suppose. Maybe there was some kind of rainwater catcher for the water, or the water outside the Ark was more okay to drink, mixed as it was with water worldwide. Maybe salination wasn't as extreme as it is today.

Obviously there are some issues here I don't really have a ready explanation for. I've been convinced enough in the Bible in the past that I still give it the benefit of the doubt since it's not a clear contradiction and unlike evolutionists, I do consider the supernatural possible based on my own experience. But I'm not going to throw out my beliefs because of a single unexplained dilemma any more than scientists throw out their theories over unexplained mysteries.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by Panda, posted 05-28-2012 10:28 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 433 by Panda, posted 05-29-2012 5:26 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded
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frako
Member
Posts: 2681
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.1


(1)
Message 432 of 453 (664118)
05-29-2012 4:32 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 8:33 PM


can i ask whats your theory on how they got the parasites on the ark especially the human exclusive parasites?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_parasites_of_humans


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

Click if you dare!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 8:33 PM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1092 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(3)
Message 433 of 453 (664120)
05-29-2012 5:26 AM
Reply to: Message 431 by Jzyehoshua
05-29-2012 1:47 AM


Re: Not enough room.
Jzyehoshua writes:

It means I've encountered one question I don't have an answer for.


But you do have an answer for it.
God-did-it-with-magic.

Jzyehoshua writes:

Just because Evolutionists discard their theory of Evolution every time they encounter a problem with it they can't explain, doesn't mean I have to abandon my beliefs just because I've found one problem I can't yet explain.


When scientists don't know something, they say "I don't know."
When you don't know something, you say "Don't know how that'd be explained without something supernatural."

Jzyehoshua writes:

My point is, there are puzzles scientists can't explain on occasion. They just assume they need to keep looking.


Correct.
But you stop looking and claim "god-did-it".
You also will never accept the possibility that it never happened regardless of how many unanswerable questions you encounter.
Because, if push comes to shove, "god-did-it-with-magic".

Jzyehoshua writes:

Could it be what AIG was saying, some sort of trap door setup allowing waste to fall down to a lower floor? I suppose. Maybe there was some kind of rainwater catcher for the water, or the water outside the Ark was more okay to drink, mixed as it was with water worldwide. Maybe salination wasn't as extreme as it is today.


You are now having to change aspects of the whole planet's environment to avoid changing your beliefs.
Here's another fact for you to have to adjust reality for: a single lion requires 100+ large animals to feed on in a year. How much food do you think those prey animals would need?
You would need to change many aspects of reality to support your ark story.
But the option that "the Noahic flood never happened" is never a possibility.

Jzyehoshua writes:

But I'm not going to throw out my beliefs because of a single unexplained dilemma any more than scientists throw out their theories over unexplained mysteries.


And that is the complete opposite of what you wrote just a second ago: "Just because Evolutionists discard their theory of Evolution every time they encounter a problem."
So - you are not doing science. You don't want to do science. You will never do science.

You are just playing, pretending to be scientific, but you will drop it like a hot potato if you ever have to adjust your beliefs.
That is called dogma - and it is not science.

So, there is still no point in your attempts to be scientific.
You don't accept science if it disagrees with you and you will happily claim that magic was involved, rather than adjust your beliefs.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.

Edited by Panda, : No reason given.


CRYSTALS!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 431 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-29-2012 1:47 AM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
saab93f
Member (Idle past 91 days)
Posts: 265
From: Finland
Joined: 12-17-2009


Message 434 of 453 (664122)
05-29-2012 7:52 AM
Reply to: Message 413 by jar
05-28-2012 8:51 PM


quote:
If it is impossible to say what the design was then it's impossible to say it would even float; but since the Biblical Flood never happened it doesn't much matter anyway.

We know what the Millenium Falcon or SS Enterprise look like and what their dimensions are like - there is just this annoying thing that some people are adamant that the Ark would instead of aforementioned have been real


This message is a reply to:
 Message 413 by jar, posted 05-28-2012 8:51 PM jar has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 12906
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 435 of 453 (664153)
05-29-2012 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by Jzyehoshua
05-28-2012 8:54 PM


Jzehoshua writes:

Well, theories could be proposed for how it COULD float, which is basically all Answers in Genesis did, theorize on ways a design could work given the minimal information we know.


AiG didn't theorize; they hypothesized. Theories require testing.

Why is it that creationists always come up with these (outlandish) ideas on how it "could" have happened but they never do any experiments to test their hypotheses? Why do they spend millions on propaganda and not one cent on science?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 414 by Jzyehoshua, posted 05-28-2012 8:54 PM Jzyehoshua has not yet responded

  
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