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Author Topic:   Questions about the living cell
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 136 of 182 (529158)
10-08-2009 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate
10-08-2009 12:49 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Here are some pictures of the protein laminan that should dispel this laminin=cross=God myth.
laminin-10 in colon cancer metastasis

You can't dispel the truth. That's the way God made Laminin and when it is diagrammed it always looks like:




As for the fact that Laminin can degenerate (cancer), so what? There is nothing in scripture that says that there is something about the physical body that will not be subject to sickness, disease, or destruction. The physical cross (wood) upon which Jesus died degenerated and is no longer in existence. We live in a perishing world so degeneration is the order of the hour. Cancer is the result of the sin and rebellion of mankind against God. Neither Laminin nor any other cell in living organisms were created that way. It happened since the fall of man into sin.

Edited by Calypsis4, : addition


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-08-2009 12:49 PM DevilsAdvocate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 137 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 2:19 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 152 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 10-08-2009 5:49 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 163 by Dr Jack, posted 10-09-2009 10:33 AM Calypsis4 has responded

    
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 2806 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 137 of 182 (529174)
10-08-2009 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 1:14 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
And once again we delve into "God did it" territory. You are using Scripture to explain a natural occurrence when no one has shown the Old Testament to be completely factual. Saying the laminins look like the cross doesn't matter. You can take it as a matter of faith but the fact that Scripture says that he is in all things doesn't prove that laminins are God's way of being in all living things. All you're doing is using an unproven source that you are interpreting to prove your beliefs. Do you understand - you are interpreting the words to mean that God used the laminins. What if God had meant something else? How do you know he meant something else?

The other thing you have to keep in mind is that you used the discovery to uphold your beliefs. But if it is as you say, then theologians should have predicted the laminins and known where to look. But Scripture makes no predictions. For centuries, that phrase was not interpreted to mean that laminins shaped like crosses are keeping our cells in shape. Theologians were not going around telling people laminins were keeping their cells together. When microscopes were invented, theologians were not looking at cell walls trying to find this so called word of God holding our cells together. Even with electron microscopes, theologians were happily spouting away that it was God's literal words binding the world. But along comes the laminin and now creationists want to claim it? I say no. Creationists never hypothesized the existence of the laminin and have no right to accept it into their theology. When creationists are able to use Scripture to make a prediction about what we may find in the world around us, look for that thing, and show it, then creationists can claim that. Otherwise, hands off the scientists' work.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 136 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 1:14 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:03 PM Izanagi has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 138 of 182 (529188)
10-08-2009 3:03 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by Izanagi
10-08-2009 2:19 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
And once again we delve into "God did it" territory.

And somehow you think that that is a problem for the Almighty who has all power and all wisdom.

You really don't realize, however, that by eliminating God from the equation you must replace it with "nature did it" and your problem is many fold the more in the way of credulity than you think I have for my beliefs.

Creationists never hypothesized the existence of the laminin and have no right to accept it into their theology

Says you. Since when are you the dictator of what Christians can claim or not claim? But you will not escape the fact that the ancient text of scripture says, "by Him (Christ) all things consist" and that He upholds "all things by the Word of His power". For years skeptics have challenged us Christians to give evidence for this truth. Now that we do so they flat out deny that Christs symbol (the cross upon which He died) is found in the very shape of the molecule that holds all living things together.

Science tells us: "The trimeric proteins form a CROSS, giving a structure that can bind to other cell membrane and extracellular matrix molecules."M. A. Haralson and John R. Hassell (1995). Extracellular matrix: a practical approach. Ithaca, N.Y: IRL Press. ISBN 0-19-963220-0. They were not 'talking religion'. They were scientists making an observation.

By analogy, what Laminin does in connecting the cells of the body by its joints and bands (cell binding) is just what Christ does for His 'body', the church.

"...holding the Head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God." Colossians 2:19.

But its there and its obvious and you and those of your persuasion will have to deal with it.

One other thing I wish you and the other skeptics to observe: Notice the definition: 'trimeric'. Laminin is composed of three parts; the b1 chain, the b2 chain and the spine. Three in one. Another coincidence, right?

Edited by Calypsis4, : No reason given.

Edited by Calypsis4, : addition


This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 2:19 PM Izanagi has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 3:15 PM Calypsis4 has responded

    
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 2806 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 139 of 182 (529192)
10-08-2009 3:15 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 3:03 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Again you miss the point.

Scripture did not predict such a thing would be found. Theologians were not scouring the cell wall looking for it. Those demon-spawn anti-God evolutionist scientists you detest so much found it.

It was after the discovery that creationists said, "See what THEY found!" And this has always been the tactic with creationists. They are always using OTHER people's work to justify their views rather than doing the research themselves.

If the Bible is such a storehouse of scientific info that you claim, then find me an example of a creationist who used Scripture to predict a cell structure, searched for it, and then found it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:03 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 140 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:23 PM Izanagi has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 140 of 182 (529193)
10-08-2009 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Izanagi
10-08-2009 3:15 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Again you miss the point.
Scripture did not predict such a thing would be found.

No, you are missing the point and you are doing it deliberately. I never said that the scriptures mentioned 'Laminin' per se. But they make if clear that Christ, who is co-Creator with the Father holds all things together. The truth is that HE is the binding element.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 3:15 PM Izanagi has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by greyseal, posted 10-08-2009 3:51 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 142 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 3:54 PM Calypsis4 has responded
 Message 150 by Perdition, posted 10-08-2009 5:26 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
greyseal
Member (Idle past 1452 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


Message 141 of 182 (529204)
10-08-2009 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 3:23 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
laminin isn't an element, doesn't look so rigidly cross-shaped, isn't mentioned in the bible and the DIAGRAM you keep referring to looks far more like the Greek.

Get over it, seriously. You can say "but I know the truth" all you want, it's hot air and pareidolia.

It looks far more like His Noodly Appendage in real life anyhow.

RAmen.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:23 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:08 PM greyseal has not yet responded

    
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 2806 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


Message 142 of 182 (529206)
10-08-2009 3:54 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 3:23 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
No, you are missing the point and you are doing it deliberately. I never said that the scriptures mentioned 'Laminin' per se. But they make if clear that Christ, who is co-Creator with the Father holds all things together. The truth is that HE is the binding element.

Once again, all you have done is twisted a discovery to support your idea. Prior to this, fundamentalists argued that God holding all things was the literal words that God spoke. They never talked about cell walls or laminins. Do you get it? They interpreted the Bible to mean one thing and after the discovery decided to interpret the Bible to mean this other thing.

This is bearing false witness. Creationists want creationism to be a science; well they have to show how it is a science. Their ideas are based on Scripture. They have to show how the Bible predicts the world around us and what we will discover. But creationists have failed to do this. They spend their days scouring the interweb looking at other people's research. There is a word for that - a leech. And that's what creationists are; they are leeches. And leeches make poor scientists.

If you want to prove me wrong, then show me a prediction about the cell that a creationist made using Scripture, the research and experiments that the creationist performed, and that the creationist found what was looked for. Doing that goes a long way to proving me wrong. Failing to do that only serves to reinforce my position.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:23 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:06 PM Izanagi has responded

  
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 143 of 182 (529210)
10-08-2009 4:06 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by Izanagi
10-08-2009 3:54 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Once again, all you have done is twisted a discovery to support your idea.

You are in error, but I am not going to argue with you any longer.When we all stand before our Creator in the yet appointed day there will be no more arguments.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 3:54 PM Izanagi has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Izanagi, posted 10-08-2009 4:24 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 144 of 182 (529212)
10-08-2009 4:08 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by greyseal
10-08-2009 3:51 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
laminin isn't an element, doesn't look so rigidly cross-shaped, isn't mentioned in the bible and the DIAGRAM you keep referring to looks far more like the Greek.

No, it doesn't. It looks like the cross and I quoted secular scientists who said so themselves. Maybe you missed it.

"The trimeric proteins form a CROSS, giving a structure that can bind to other cell membrane and extracellular matrix molecules."M. A. Haralson and John R. Hassell (1995). Extracellular matrix: a practical approach. Ithaca, N.Y: IRL Press. ISBN 0-19-963220-0. They were not 'talking religion'. They were scientists making an observation.

Case closed.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by greyseal, posted 10-08-2009 3:51 PM greyseal has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 4:46 PM Calypsis4 has responded

    
Izanagi
Member (Idle past 2806 days)
Posts: 263
Joined: 09-15-2009


(1)
Message 145 of 182 (529217)
10-08-2009 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 4:06 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
You are in error, but I am not going to argue with you any longer.

You say I'm in error, but you won't do the thing I said would prove me wrong. You say you won't argue with me, but I believe it is because you can't argue with logic and reason.

I told you what you can do to prove me wrong. Find an example of someone using Scripture to make a prediction about something we would find in a cell, doing the research and experimentation, and then showing what he found. If you can do this, I can at least consider your argument.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:06 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

  
SammyJean
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 87
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 03-28-2009


Message 146 of 182 (529223)
10-08-2009 4:46 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 4:08 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Please answer the question. I've ask twice now. Message 124, Message 135 One more time!

quote:
Where in the scripture does it say the the "cross" is gods symbol?

I'm going to keep on asking this, until I get an answer.


"Few are those who see with their own eyes and feel with their own hearts." -Albert Einstein

"I would rather have a mind opened by wonder than one closed by belief."
~ Gerry Spence


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:08 PM Calypsis4 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:58 PM SammyJean has responded

    
Calypsis4
Member (Idle past 2804 days)
Posts: 428
Joined: 09-29-2009


Message 147 of 182 (529229)
10-08-2009 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by SammyJean
10-08-2009 4:46 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
Where in the scripture does it say the the "cross" is gods symbol?

Galatians 6:12 As many as desire to make a fair shew in the flesh, they constrain you to be circumcised; only lest they should suffer persecution for the cross of Christ.

Galatians 6:14 But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

Philippians 3:18 (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 4:46 PM SammyJean has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 5:06 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
SammyJean
Member (Idle past 1663 days)
Posts: 87
From: Fremont, CA, USA
Joined: 03-28-2009


(1)
Message 148 of 182 (529235)
10-08-2009 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 147 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 4:58 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
None of this says that the cross is god's symbol.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 4:58 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by NosyNed, posted 10-08-2009 5:15 PM SammyJean has responded

    
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8800
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 10.0


Message 149 of 182 (529242)
10-08-2009 5:15 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by SammyJean
10-08-2009 5:06 PM


Not the symbol?
Not directly but they do seem to make it clear is it important.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 5:06 PM SammyJean has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by SammyJean, posted 10-08-2009 5:48 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Perdition
Member (Idle past 828 days)
Posts: 1593
From: Wisconsin
Joined: 05-15-2003


(1)
Message 150 of 182 (529246)
10-08-2009 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 140 by Calypsis4
10-08-2009 3:23 PM


Re: Pentagrams and pentagons
No, you are missing the point and you are doing it deliberately. I never said that the scriptures mentioned 'Laminin' per se. But they make if clear that Christ, who is co-Creator with the Father holds all things together. The truth is that HE is the binding element.

But laminin doesn't hold all things together. I'm pretty sure there isn't any in rocks, or in nebulae. Laminin seems to be integral to LIFE however, just as the ankh is the Eqyptian symbol of life and looks as much like laminin ans the Christian cross does.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 140 by Calypsis4, posted 10-08-2009 3:23 PM Calypsis4 has not yet responded

    
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