Information Changes in DNA by logical Analysis

So applying similar pedantry to ordering information, I think in the absence of a proposed method we must consider as undemonstrated the claim that information can be ordered without defining how it is quantified.--Percy

Yup. And we must consider as undemonstrated that information must be quantified to order it. We don't even know if information as any particular creationist conceives it can be ordered or quantified. All we can know is that, in order to meaningfully claim that some process has or has not increased information, that information must be quantified and/or ordered.That final step is, of course, the step that few creationists even attempt. And those that do attempt it unfailingly end up with someone else demonstrating a process that does increase that particular creationist's version of information.My only real point here is that "you must quantify information in order to claim it has or has not increased" is not true. "You must quantify or order information in order to claim it has or has not increased" is true.

So what's the answer? Is there one? How do you help someone understand that new information can be created when they don't understand information theory or even have a useful definition of information?--Percy

For an ongoing example see Kaichos man's recent thread, [thread=-13889].TTFN,WK

You point out to them that even if they do not have a useful definition of information, then nonetheless any useful definition of information must at least fulfill the axioms stated in the OP.Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.