The Psychology Behind the Belief in Heaven and Hell

Disagree very strongly! God, by definition, is everywhere. There is no place outside the presence. God is immanently present in hell. How? In the fire. Even those making it to the state called heaven via mere faith are liable to find it a hot unpleasant "purgatory" for some time before what's left of them acquires any bliss. Might be a good idea to store up teflon in heaven then, yes? Unless you want to be barbecue

Not at all, I meant that "by one offering [Jesus] has protected for all time those who are sanctified."As the verse says:

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For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:12-14

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That is impossible. Paul had no idea that there would be "Christians" in the future. Then I'll ask you the same question I asked EMA: What then was the point of sacrificing Jesus?The quote I provided was clear:

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. . . but He, having offered one sacrifice for sins for all time, sat down at the right hand of God, waiting from that time onward until his enemies be made a footstool for his feet. For by one offering He has perfected for all time those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:12-14

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- Oni

I am not sure what English version you are quoting. But it should be "For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified" (Heb. 10:14)Was that a typo? Did you mean to write "perfected" rather than "protected"?As the verse says: There you go. You have it that time. That is 10:14. This still cannot be taken as anykind of license to exploit "cheap grace". In fact the book of Hebrews is exactly the book one would NOT want to appeal to. It is a letter filled with at least five serious warnings to Christians to either continue to mature or grow.Did you notice that phrase "those who are BEING sanctified"?On one hand, yes, they are perfected forever. From another angle they are in the process of BEING sanctified. The whole book of Hebrews has repeated warnings to Christians to cooperate in the ongoing process of BEING sanctified.And there are strong consequences for those who do not cooperate.So then, the disciples are to be perfected forever. But there is nothing assuring them that they will all arrive at this perfection at the same time.Perfection through the process of sanctification therefore can be postponed or procrastinated upon. It cannot be put off forever.Do you understand? I'm sorry but that is totally absurd. He may of wanted to live until he saw Christ physically return. So does every true lover of the Lord Jesus Christ. But he made provision for his colleagues in case that was not to be the case.Paul towards the end of his ministry expected to die. He did not expect that Gospel propogation would die with him. This would be totally against the tone of his letters to hs co-worker Timothy in First and Second Timothy. I suggest that you also read the whole book of Hebrews. At least back up a chapter and read your quotation in context of the surrounding discussion before and afterwards.Paul here expects disciples of Christ "in the latter times" for some will depart from the faith. In the latter times there will be on earth a FAITH, a Christian faith which some will depart from.He expected that if he departed the Christian faith would continue to be propogated. And his instructions to Timothy prove that. He did not expect the Gospel to die with him.The sacrificing of Jesus does not in anyway necessitate there being no disciples of Christ for years or centries to come.Paul writes that as to the past, the Christians have been reconciled to God by the death of God's Son. On that bases they are being much more saved, organically, in the realm of His life: As to Christ's sacrificial death, they have been judicially reconciled to God.As to His living in them to be their life, they are to be saved "much more" in the realm of His divine life. That speaks of ongoing subjective sanctification and transformation.In other words. simply to be forgiven is not the end in itself. But to be forgiven via His death is the basis upon which they can be transformed into His image by His indwelling life.A judicial redemption through His sacrifice goes before and an organic salvation in the realm of His life continues after.Some evangelicals seem to make forgiveness and end in itself. Some careful reading of the Scriptures for yourself might remedy this misunderstanding. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.

In the same book you also have exhortations to be imitators of those who are inheriting the promises. Sure, they have been perfected forever by one sacrifice. That is judicially. Organically they need to be brought on to maturity in life.This requires long-suffering. This takes time. Those "perfected forever" still need time and long-suffering to be in the process of subjective dispositional sanctification.Some are inheriting the promises. Others should not be sluggish but go on to be imitators of those who are matured.There are too many passages in the book of Henbrews which state the same thing in other words. They must be brought on, come forward, mature, grow.Christ sacrifice and positional sanctification does not make null the need for our dispositional sanctification. The latter is a life long process.

His death was for the forgiveness of our sins. But what about our character? Is that changed instantaneously?To be born again only takes and instant. But to be transformed into His image is from one degree of glory to another - successive degrees: Those perfected forever need to be transformed by degrees - from one degree of glory and expression to another degree of glory and expression.This is a life long process upon those who have been forgiven because of Christ's sacrificial death.In chapter 10 of Hebrews, in the very book you quoted in verse 22 the writers urges those perfected to come forward. Having their consciences sprinkled by the blood of Jesus so that condemnation would be dealt with, let them now come forward to deeper and deeper intimate fellowship with God.The writer includes himself "let us come forward". As perfectred as he may have been he did not want to linger back. He wanted to come forward to God. He wanted to make progress.Being perfected forever by Christ's sacrifice does not negate the need to make spiritual progress. Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.Edited by jaywill, : No reason given.