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Author Topic:   Help in teaching 11-12 Year olds (RE (Religious Education) in the UK)
Huntard
Member
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 121 of 126 (539234)
12-14-2009 8:03 AM
Reply to: Message 113 by Peg
12-14-2009 7:03 AM


Re: Evolution and Origins
Peg writes:

you may have a point on that depending on what a 'species' actually is. Have we made the correct determination of what a 'species' is? I dont know.


We were talking about kinds though, not species.

What i said earlier is that the boundary between "kinds" should be drawn at the point where fertilization ceases to occur because in Genesis, a 'kind' was mentioned along with 'go forth and muliply'

Then cats and lions are a different kind, since they cannot "go forth and multiply".

as far as i'm aware, the basic meaning of a "species" is a sort, a kind or a variety.

No, not really. Like I said every "variation" of dog is of the same species.

But then in biologic terminology they apply a species to any group of interfertile animals that have one or more distinctive characteristics. So really, a moggy is the same species as a lion because they have one or more distinct characteristics, yes?

No. That's not how species is determined. The one I personally like is "a group opf organisms that live in a certain area and breed together and have fertile offspring". Bear in mind there are always exceptions, since nature is never either black or white. But we're not talking about species, we're talking about kinds.

but if we take it back to hybridization, some cats of different varieties can be hybridized, but there is a complete inability of man to hybridize with the ape family...therefore apes and man cannot be from the same 'kind'.

Than neither can the common housecat be of the same kind as the lion, since they are completely unable to hyberdize with eachother. As are ostriches and chickens.

We may look similar and have similar characteristics, but those characteristics do not mean we are from the same species so the biologic terminology of what a species is cannot be 100% accurate either.

Humans are apes of a different species as other apes. No one has said otherwise.

it would seem that chromosomes play a role in successful reproduction.

Genetic compatibility, like Wounded King said, yes.

If you looked at the link re hybridized cats, they show how cats with a certain number of chromosomes are not compatible with cats of a different number. But the point is that even though they have different numbers of chromosomes, they are still cats.

But, according to your own definition, not all are the same kind of cats.

Edited by Huntard, : Clarifying last sentence

Edited by AdminModulous, : Sections not related to education hidden.


I hunt for the truth

I am the one Orgasmatron, the outstretched grasping hand
My image is of agony, my servants rape the land
Obsequious and arrogant, clandestine and vain
Two thousand years of misery, of torture in my name
Hypocrisy made paramount, paranoia the law
My name is called religion, sadistic, sacred whore.
-Lyrics by Lemmy Kilmister of Motorhead


This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by Peg, posted 12-14-2009 7:03 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 2489 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 122 of 126 (539235)
12-14-2009 8:19 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by Peg
12-14-2009 7:23 AM


Re: Evolution and Origins
Thats almost 400 years after the flood.

Okay.

So what was it that the domestic cat descended from?

No Brian, animals dont need time to change...

Of course they do. Name one of you kinds that appeared 'overnight'.

they need genetics! Genetics, along with environment, is what allows the animals to reproduce in such variety.

Okay let me get this clear.

Noah took 2 unidentified cats aboard the Ark, then 400 years later we have a huge variety of cats?

Now, you must be basing this conclusion on some evidence, I hope, so what is the evidence that you have that leads to this conclusion?

Edited by AdminModulous, : Sections not related to education hidden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Peg, posted 12-14-2009 7:23 AM Peg has not yet responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5988
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 123 of 126 (539244)
12-14-2009 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Peg
12-14-2009 7:07 AM


Re: Evolution and Origins
Coyote writes:

You deny speciation then pack what scientists say required millions of years of evolution into just a few centuries. And have it suddenly stop??

a few centuries?

its more like 4,000 odd years


No, it is not.

Most biblical scholars agree on the date of the "flood" at around 4,350 years ago.

The hyperevolution that you claim happened (and for which there is no shred of evidence) would have occurred between the date of the flood and the beginning of good historical records because there is no evidence in the records of any such hyperevolution.

So you would need to make up a fanciful explanation for the existence of this hyperevolution, and then explain why it lasted a few centuries at most--and then why it returned to a normal rate just before people began to note and record such things.

Face it, you are just blowing smoke--at yourself mostly, and expecting the rest of us to buy your stories.

Edited by AdminModulous, : Sections not related to education hidden.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Peg, posted 12-14-2009 7:07 AM Peg has not yet responded

hooah212002
Member (Idle past 434 days)
Posts: 3180
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 124 of 126 (539254)
12-14-2009 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Peg
12-14-2009 7:23 AM


Re: Evolution and Origins
there is no problem there because the ancient egyptions are said to have domesticated cats around 2,000 bce...the flood came in the year 2370bce. Thats almost 400 years after the flood. And egypt was the area of land that the decendents of noahs son Ham inhabited.

I want to get ack on this to say that more recent studies have shown felines to have been domesticated at least 5000 years earlier than what you say. Try again.

Edited by AdminModulous, : Sections not related to education hidden.


Who are we? We find that we live on an insignificant planet of a humdrum star lost in a galaxy tucked away in some forgotten corner of a universe in which there are far more galaxies than people
-Carl Sagan
This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by Peg, posted 12-14-2009 7:23 AM Peg has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Brian, posted 12-14-2009 12:42 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
Brian
Member (Idle past 2489 days)
Posts: 4659
From: Scotland
Joined: 10-22-2002


Message 125 of 126 (539255)
12-14-2009 12:42 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by hooah212002
12-14-2009 12:37 PM


Re: Evolution and Origins
I want to get ack on this to say that more recent studies have shown felines to have been domesticated at least 5000 years earlier than what you say.

But these cats would have been wiped out in the Flud! Then the 2 cats on the Ark started all over again and eventually, rather rapidly, the domesticated cats would reappear. Easy isn't it?

Edited by AdminModulous, : Sections not related to education hidden.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by hooah212002, posted 12-14-2009 12:37 PM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
AdminModulous
Administrator
Posts: 891
Joined: 03-02-2006


Message 126 of 126 (539264)
12-14-2009 2:07 PM


Topic closed - terminal drift
The original poster has left and the posts that follow this event rapidly became a general free for all about evolution.

Off topic posts hidden, only those tangentially related to the topic survived. This thread is now closed. Please take any interesting subthreads to new topics or search for already existing ones.


  
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