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Author Topic:   Adding information to the genome.
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 248 of 280 (538659)
12-08-2009 9:04 PM
Reply to: Message 240 by Kaichos Man
12-08-2009 7:35 AM


no
Hi Kaichos Man,
He did, in the generation of variation:
"(2) There is a sudden increase or boom of neutral variations under relaxed selection. In this stage, gene duplication in addition to point mutation must play a very important role in producing genetic variations. Needless to say, their fate is largely determined by random drift.
Notice that Kimura saw "relaxed selection" as a rerequisite for the generation of variation.
No. He. Did. Not.
The relaxed selection does not cause the increase in variation, it allows more naturally occurring random mutation variations to survive to following generations, the variations are still caused by mutations. He points out precisely where the variations come from: "In this stage, gene duplication in addition to point mutation must play a very important role in producing genetic variations." Mutation causes variations, low selection pressure allows more marginal random mutation variations to survive.
In addition, under low selection pressure genetic drift plays a more dominant role than natural selection. IOW, under low selection pressure natural selection plays LESS of a role in evolution than it does under high selection pressure, with the result that more naturally occurring random mutation variations survive.
Natural
Selection

Does
Not

Cause
Variation
Natural Selection allows some variation/s to remain, depending on how much they do not disadvantage the organisms to survive or breed, and weeds out the ones that do, in a given ecosystem. With high selection pressure more are weeded out, with low selection pressure more marginal variations survive because they CAN under less sever selection pressure. The variations are already in the population.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Kaichos Man, posted 12-08-2009 7:35 AM Kaichos Man has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 250 by Wounded King, posted 12-09-2009 5:54 AM RAZD has seen this message but not replied
 Message 254 by Kaichos Man, posted 12-09-2009 8:04 AM RAZD has replied

  
RAZD
Member (Idle past 1433 days)
Posts: 20714
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004


Message 274 of 280 (538766)
12-09-2009 7:48 PM
Reply to: Message 254 by Kaichos Man
12-09-2009 8:04 AM


Re: no and STILL no.
Kaichos Man, please read the words, not what you want them to be.
"What I want to emphasize is that relaxation of natural selection is the prerequisite for new evolutionary progress."Kimura 1991
Being a prerequisite for new evolutionary progress, curiously, does not say that natural selection causes variations rather than allowing more to exist. In other words, this does not prove your point in the slightest, and in fact is consistent with what you have been told is being said as opposed to your erroneous interpretation.
and:
"(i) A population is liberated from the preexisting selective constraint. (ii) Thereis a sudden increase or boom of neutral variations under relaxed selection."
Emphasis. Added.
And again, this does not state that the relaxed selection causes the increase or boom in neutral variations, only that more variations are allowed to exist. Let me rearrange his statement by switching the two parts of the sentence:
"(i) A population is liberated from the preexisting selective constraint. (ii) under relaxed selection There is a sudden increase or boom of neutral variations ..."
Because of the relaxed constraints on the amount of variation allowed in the population, more new variations due to mutations and genetic drift survive to be passed on to following generations than was allowed under the previous selection constraints.
When you relax the selection criteria for immigration there is a sudden boom of additional people immigrating. The relaxation of the selection criteria doesn't cause these people to suddenly exist out of the blue, rather it allows existing people to immigrate that didn't meet the previous selection criteria.
When you open a water tap, more water passes through the tap than passed before the valve was opened. Opening the tap doesn't suddenly cause more water to exist.
When you open a door, more people can pass through the door than could pass before the door was opened. Opening the door doesn't suddenly cause more people to exist.
It is really, truly, a simple concept.
Enjoy.

we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
 Message 254 by Kaichos Man, posted 12-09-2009 8:04 AM Kaichos Man has not replied

  
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