Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 158 (8094 total)
Current session began: 
Page Loaded: 07-22-2014 11:42 PM
189 online now:
Chatting now:  Chat room empty
Newest Member: yudi
Upcoming Birthdays: anglagard
Post Volume:
Total: 732,951 Year: 18,792/28,606 Month: 2,063/2,305 Week: 268/671 Day: 114/68 Hour: 2/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Prev1
...
45
6
78
...
11Next
Author Topic:   Does intelligent design have creationist roots?
traderdrew
Member (Idle past 1527 days)
Posts: 379
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Joined: 04-27-2009


Message 76 of 151 (507294)
05-03-2009 2:19 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by onifre
05-03-2009 11:33 AM


Re: Metascience
I was referring to the trends within advancements of science and technology to be able to explain away once was thought to have supernatural causations.

I thought I was answering your points except for the one on the holographic universe. You asked for some science as I recall. It is not hard to find it on google.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090203081609.htm

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/02/090203130708.htm

And I think you are right that I am part of the irony. I wouldn't mind meeting with you at least once at City Place. I am not like this in real life. I don't push my agendas on people who don't want to hear about them. Of course I do it here because you have a choice if you wish to read it or not or engage me.

Edited by traderdrew, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by onifre, posted 05-03-2009 11:33 AM onifre has not yet responded

    
traderdrew
Member (Idle past 1527 days)
Posts: 379
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Joined: 04-27-2009


Message 77 of 151 (507297)
05-03-2009 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by lyx2no
05-02-2009 2:05 PM


Re: Metascience
Because the people who wrote the Wedge Document were Fundamentalist Christians playing political games because they aren't able to play science.

What if I told you that I am a Jedi from Star Wars and I believe that we were created by the Force?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by lyx2no, posted 05-02-2009 2:05 PM lyx2no has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Straggler, posted 05-03-2009 3:00 PM traderdrew has not yet responded
 Message 79 by lyx2no, posted 05-03-2009 4:20 PM traderdrew has not yet responded
 Message 80 by bluescat48, posted 05-03-2009 5:09 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

    
Straggler
Member
Posts: 9916
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 78 of 151 (507307)
05-03-2009 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by traderdrew
05-03-2009 2:21 PM


Re: Metascience
What if I told you that I am a Jedi from Star Wars and I believe that we were created by the Force?

I would suggest that this claim could be made on the basis of similar sort of evidence to that proposed in favour of ID.....


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by traderdrew, posted 05-03-2009 2:21 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

  
lyx2no
Member (Idle past 1089 days)
Posts: 1277
From: A vast, undifferentiated plane.
Joined: 02-28-2008


Message 79 of 151 (507319)
05-03-2009 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by traderdrew
05-03-2009 2:21 PM


[qs]Mitachlorians[/qs]
What if I told you that I am a Jedi from Star Wars and I believe that we were created by the Force?
Use the force to make a quote box, drew. Use the force

Edited by lyx2no, : Dbcodes are being translated then applied.

Edited by lyx2no, : Still

Edited by lyx2no, : Improve upon my daft reply.


Genesis 2
17 But of the ponderosa pine, thou shalt not eat of it; for in the day that thou shinniest thereof thou shalt sorely learn of thy nakedness.
18 And we all live happily ever after.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by traderdrew, posted 05-03-2009 2:21 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 563 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 80 of 151 (507321)
05-03-2009 5:09 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by traderdrew
05-03-2009 2:21 PM


Re: Metascience
What if I told you that I am a Jedi from Star Wars and I believe that we were created by the Force?

I'd say you were as loony as an IDest


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by traderdrew, posted 05-03-2009 2:21 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

    
Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3546
Joined: 09-26-2002
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 81 of 151 (507333)
05-03-2009 5:50 PM


Topic seems to be turning goofy
Quality on topic theme messages, please.

Adminnemooseus


New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.

Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report Technical Problems Here: No. 1
Report Discussion Problems Here: No. 2
Thread Reopen Requests
Considerations of topic promotions from the "Proposed New Topics" forum

Other useful links:

Forum Guidelines, Style Guides for EvC, Assistance w/ Forum Formatting, Proposed New (Great Debate) Topics, Official Invitations to Online Chat@EvC

Admin writes:

It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.

There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.

Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Source


    
Taq
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 82 of 151 (507391)
05-04-2009 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by traderdrew
05-02-2009 12:35 PM


Re: Metascience
Me: For ID proponents the preferred method for determining the best explanation is how well the explanation fits their theology.

traderdrew: Why does it have to be this way? Why can't we use science to filter some of evidence out?

Why don't you ask the most vocal ID proponents why this must be? They are the ones pushing this agenda. It also comes through in their insistence that accepting evolution leads to such atrocities as the Holocaust and school shootings.

Why does it have to be Christian? Why can't it be represented by Muslim or Hindu traditions?

ID is christian because it has christian creationist roots. Also, ID has to get around constitutional bans that do not exist in Hindu or Muslim countries.

Edited by Taq, : fix quote box


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by traderdrew, posted 05-02-2009 12:35 PM traderdrew has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by traderdrew, posted 05-05-2009 12:07 PM Taq has responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 83 of 151 (507392)
05-04-2009 3:39 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by traderdrew
05-02-2009 12:46 PM


Re: Metascience
In other words, the trend has been finding evidence that renders suspected supernatural activity as naturalistic explanations. Is this what you are saying? Trends are one thing but trends don't necessarily disprove the existence of something.

But you can see how this would be a problem for those who base their faith on the existence of supernatural acts. Where it applies to this topic, some people have based their faith in the idea that life had to come about through a supernatural act, not through a natural one. Therefore, science is a threat to their faith.

If this is the case, then there are two strategies. First, try to disprove the scientific theories that are an affront to your beliefs. Second, redefine science so that it encompasses your religious beliefs. This is exactly what the ID movement is all about. This is EXACTLY what the Scientific Ccreationism movement (ca. 1950's headed by Henry Morris) is all about. ID really is a dressed up version of Morris' Scientific Creationism.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by traderdrew, posted 05-02-2009 12:46 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

  
traderdrew
Member (Idle past 1527 days)
Posts: 379
From: Palm Beach, Florida
Joined: 04-27-2009


Message 84 of 151 (507473)
05-05-2009 12:07 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Taq
05-04-2009 3:31 PM


Re: Metascience
Why don't you ask the most vocal ID proponents why this must be? They are the ones pushing this agenda. It also comes through in their insistence that accepting evolution leads to such atrocities as the Holocaust and school shootings.

Actually I wouldn't blame evolution for school shootings nearly as much as SSRI anti-depressant drugs.

ID is christian because it has christian creationist roots.

I think it would be more rational and more scientific to refute what they say instead of just connecting the dots.

Edited by traderdrew, : No reason given.

Edited by traderdrew, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Taq, posted 05-04-2009 3:31 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Theodoric, posted 05-05-2009 12:46 PM traderdrew has not yet responded
 Message 86 by Taq, posted 05-05-2009 3:19 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

    
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 4516
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 85 of 151 (507477)
05-05-2009 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by traderdrew
05-05-2009 12:07 PM


Re: Metascience
quote:
I think it would be more rational and more scientific to refute what they say instead of just connecting the dots.

Look up PRATTS. Points Refuted A Thousand Times.

Show us one ID statement that has not been refuted. You see, it gets old when they keep rehashing the same old refuted arguments.

Also, the thread is "Does Intelligent design have creationist roots?", not "what is the Most effective way to combat ID?"

Therefore, you should be presenting arguments showing us that ID does not have creationist roots. Not saying that we shouldn't be connecting them in the first place. If you want to do that,(here it comes,bet you can guess what I am going to say) START ANOTHER THREAD.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by traderdrew, posted 05-05-2009 12:07 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

    
Taq
Member
Posts: 5136
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 86 of 151 (507493)
05-05-2009 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by traderdrew
05-05-2009 12:07 PM


Re: Metascience
I think it would be more rational and more scientific to refute what they say instead of just connecting the dots.

If ID supporters put forth something that was rational and scientific then I would be more than happy to refute it, but they don't do this. There are no peer reviewed papers to discuss. There is no ID research to discuss. All they put forth is a long list of logical fallacies, quote mines, and false information. Not only that, but these fallacies, quote mines, and false information are the same fallacies et al. that have were used by scientific creationists before them.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by traderdrew, posted 05-05-2009 12:07 PM traderdrew has not yet responded

  
Fallen
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 38
Joined: 08-02-2007


Message 87 of 151 (507600)
05-06-2009 4:45 PM


Out of curiosity, would anyone here be interested in a 1-on-1, moderated debate on the history of Intelligent Design? I greatly enjoy reading all of your responses to my posts, but it is hard for me to discuss this issue with so many people at once. I am not necessarily issuing a challenge right now, but it would be nice to know if people are available.

Edited by Fallen, : No reason given.


Forgive me, Father, for I know not what I do.
Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 05-06-2009 5:49 PM Fallen has responded
 Message 91 by Trev777, posted 05-09-2009 5:25 PM Fallen has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3341
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 88 of 151 (507606)
05-06-2009 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Fallen
05-06-2009 4:45 PM


Great Debate
I'd be delighted to.


For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Fallen, posted 05-06-2009 4:45 PM Fallen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 89 by Fallen, posted 05-07-2009 11:44 AM subbie has responded

  
Fallen
Member (Idle past 246 days)
Posts: 38
Joined: 08-02-2007


Message 89 of 151 (507683)
05-07-2009 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 88 by subbie
05-06-2009 5:49 PM


Re: Great Debate
What exactly do you believe about the subject?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 88 by subbie, posted 05-06-2009 5:49 PM subbie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by subbie, posted 05-07-2009 1:07 PM Fallen has responded

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3341
Joined: 02-26-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 90 of 151 (507701)
05-07-2009 1:07 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by Fallen
05-07-2009 11:44 AM


Re: Great Debate
I think I made my beliefs about the creationist roots of ID fairly clear in posts 3 and 25 of this thread. The full details of the evolution from creationism to ID show a deeper and clearer connection. I'm pressed for time at the moment, but I'll follow up with a fuller analysis, probably sometime this weekend.


For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 89 by Fallen, posted 05-07-2009 11:44 AM Fallen has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 94 by Fallen, posted 05-12-2009 4:30 PM subbie has responded

  
Prev1
...
45
6
78
...
11Next
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2014 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2014