Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 63 (9161 total)
4 online now:
Newest Member: popoi
Post Volume: Total: 915,585 Year: 2,842/9,624 Month: 687/1,588 Week: 93/229 Day: 4/61 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   What is the point of this forum?
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 47 of 139 (535647)
11-17-2009 6:19 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by cavediver
11-16-2009 3:49 AM


His email was crashfrog@gmail.com, give it a try.
You might also try checking with the people over at Dreamcatcher.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by cavediver, posted 11-16-2009 3:49 AM cavediver has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 57 of 139 (535770)
11-17-2009 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by slevesque
11-17-2009 4:54 PM


slevesque writes:
If I'm a scientist, I don't just collect data and theorize on it afterwards. No, I start with a theory that I want to prove, and then set out to experiment to prove it.
And that would work just fine if it weren't for peer review. Sites like this are for correcting misimpressions like that.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by slevesque, posted 11-17-2009 4:54 PM slevesque has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 87 of 139 (536009)
11-19-2009 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 75 by Arphy
11-18-2009 11:19 PM


Arphy writes:
As for christians who have lied. Yes, it most certainly happens,...
It isn't just that it happens that Christians lie. It's that Christian's lie just as much as anyone else. Being Christian doesn't appear to be much of an advantage in being a better person.
...but doing so is in conflict with their belief (while it isn't a conflict of beliefs for an atheist..
I'm not an atheist, but given the distance between our beliefs I may as well be, so I can comment on this one. Lying is not only in conflict with my beliefs, it's in conflict with my entire being. I don't need God to tell me that lying is wrong, or about anything that is right or wrong. I know from deep within me what is right or wrong, as does almost any atheist.
If there were any possibility at all that Christianity made one a better person then there would be hordes of statistics supporting it. There would be studies showing, for instance, that the incidence of murder by atheists is far higher than by Christians, but that's not the case. While you never hear of atheists committing murder in defense of their beliefs, with Christians you have people like Paul Hill who murdered an abortion doctor in cold blood, and then there's the whole Islamic martyrdom thing.
The history of religion, including Christianity, is to adopt the morality of the culture of its worshipers. That's why Christianity in the South supported slavery while Christianity in the North opposed it. The Bible is reinterpreted to support the existing cultural morality. There is no absolute morality in religion.
--Percy
Edited by Percy, : Grammar, improve clarity.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Arphy, posted 11-18-2009 11:19 PM Arphy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 121 of 139 (536167)
11-20-2009 7:37 AM
Reply to: Message 100 by Arphy
11-19-2009 9:19 PM


Atheism is not a Religion
Archy writes:
I'm just stating that there is nothing in atheism that would make it wrong for a person to do harm.
The familiar creationist claim that atheism is a religion just like any other religion is oft-refuted, and that atheism has no system of morals is yet another reason why atheism is not a religion. Atheism is a lack of belief, so of course there's "nothing in atheism that would make it wrong for a person to do harm." That's because it's not a religion, neither is it a system of morals. It's a rejection of the possibility of the existence of God.
The belief that we should not do other people harm isn't within atheism but within atheists, as it is within most people. This belief is there whether you're religious or not.
Christianity has rules about not harming other people, but all the evidence tells us that Christians are quite free to obey or disobey these rules. They both obey and disobey them all the time. Being a Christian apparently doesn't make a person any more or less likely to refrain from harming other people. Given that atheists as a group tend to be more educated than the general population, and given that education level is negatively correlated with criminality, atheists as a group probably commit fewer crimes than Christians, measured on a percentage basis, of course. What does that tell us about the value of Christian morals?
Most people do not need a list of rules to tell them what is right and wrong. If Christian morality is all that is keeping you from raping and pillaging then I say thank God for Christianity, but most people's morals come from within, including Christians. For instance, most American Catholics have little problem disobeying the Pope on birth control. That birth control is not morally wrong is something they feel from within themselves. And that harming anothers *is* morally wrong is something they also feel within themselves, and if the Bible said it was okay to harm others (which arguably it does) then they would likely reject that, too.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by Arphy, posted 11-19-2009 9:19 PM Arphy has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22359
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 135 of 139 (536268)
11-21-2009 6:51 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by Arphy
11-21-2009 3:56 AM


There comes a point with many creationists where their arguments escape the tug of rationality and logic and fly free into mysterious realms where meanings take impossible trajectories and jumbled conclusions flit every which way. Responding "Yes!" and "Exactly!" to arguments pretty much in direct opposition to your own, combined with the rest of the garbling, tells us that you've reached that point. There wouldn't be much sense in responding to you when you're in this mode, it would just be more grist for your nonsense mill.
On a more concrete note, you might at least recognize that a number of people have gone to the trouble of taking your arguments seriously by providing sincere and thoughtful responses that in turn deserve your own respectful treatment.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by Arphy, posted 11-21-2009 3:56 AM Arphy has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Phat, posted 11-21-2009 7:52 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024