Euthypro Dilemna

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For all of you who don't already know, here is the dilemma:

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"Is what is moral commanded by God because it is moral, or is it moral because it is commanded by God?"

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I never knew this had a name. Learn something new everyday. May I babble until the theists get here? Given the time frame the laws (not just the ten) or morals of the Bible were really written, I would say that attributing them to God is what gave authority to the morals of the time. Many of them have been dropped or changed over time. The more universal morals (lying, stealing, murder) still remain. The oral law was created so that the laws could adjust with the society.When the rules came down, no one seemed surprised. God didn't seem to give them any significantly different morals than what they already had.I don't think it's about intermediary, but about authority.
So I would say it was a matter of giving higher authority to morals they already had.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

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So then, god isn't required for morals?

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Not that I can tell. Aren't there cultures that thrived without "receiving" laws from a god like the one in the Bible?Are any of our morals derived from nature?IMO, God reflects the morals of the people enforcing or preaching the morals. That's why he changes. With Greek philosophy, God was changed to all good and bad was a separate entity.Edited by purpledawn, : Added thought.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

I added thoughts to Message 12.

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More fuel, IMO, for god being a manmade invention.

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Gods are the personification of nature. That personification took on a life of its own in some religions.

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So, god is a pedophile when a child molesting preacher is preaching about him?

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No, the preacher isn't preaching that pedophilia is morally right. (At least hopefully he isn't.)My assumption is that those who enforced or preached the morals were basically following the morals or at least the morals they enforced or preached were what they wanted their group or populace to follow.The commands in the OT were rules for a nation. Groups can agree on rules to manage a group even if some individuals within the group may break the rule.

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is god not the ruler of all?

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Who rules, man or nature?Edited by purpledawn, : Last question

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

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IMO, the OP was referring to the bible MOST christians read and adhere to.

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Which is why I asked if I could babble until the theists got here. I'm looking at it a different way. Once the theists pop in you'll get the usual answers you're looking for and I'll go silent and monitor.

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion