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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
Rahvin
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Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 163 of 759 (577258)
08-27-2010 7:23 PM
Reply to: Message 161 by Taz
08-27-2010 7:05 PM


Re: It's not about race, it's about religious ties...
So, let's be politically correct and ignore the obvious prejudice coming from both these communities?
But you're right, I won't say it into their faces. I will, however, vote every chance I get to have their rights taken away.
You won't provide a social benefit by countering a social harm with more social harm. All you'll do is set back the entire equality movement.
Stop playing Internet Tough Guy.
Religious groups (particularly Mormons and Catholics) poured ungodly amounts of money into the Prop h8 campaign, and used plenty of time at the pulpit whipping up a frenzy of anti-gay rhetoric and absurd rationalizations that let people who otherwise support gay rights believe that they could simultaneously support gay equality and oppose gay marriage.
Blacks and hispanics have a rather high percentage of their corresponding populations who adhere to religions that vehemently oppose gay marriage. It is not surprising therefor to find that a high percentage of those communities also opposed gay marriage in the Prop h8 vote.
You won;t accomplish your stated goals by acting like a bigot yourself, Taz. You'll just look like another bigot. And possibly lose the support of those blacks and hispanics who do support gay equality, as they find that the gay equality movement is now tolerant of racism.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 161 by Taz, posted 08-27-2010 7:05 PM Taz has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 180 of 759 (577998)
08-31-2010 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Taz
08-28-2010 3:01 PM


Re: Errors on a couple of counts
I've already met several people who have taken the cop-out attitude to avoid the issue by saying we have to look at the individuals. Well, if 70-80% of the community at large has the same attitude about something, I think it's fairly safe to say that the community has that attitude.
It's not unfair. There's nothing wrong with stating the observed fact that 70-80% of people of specific racial backgrounds tend to vote a certain way on a topic.
That's not the problem. The problem is that you've got this idea in your head that by actively voting agaisnt equality for those specific racial groups, you can somehow reverse their voting trend.
That idea, Taz, is stupid. Extremely stupid. You know full well it's not going to work.
Your stated goal is to work towards equality for homosexuals in America. By voting against equality for blacks and latinos, you will not gain a single vote. You will in fact be an example of racism within the equality-for-gays camp, and will drive votes away from your cause.
What about the gay latinos and gay blacks? They can get married, but hey, let's segregate the schools by race?
This isn't a war. You can't increase acceptance and equality through combativeness. All you'll manage to do is shift which lines we're using to separate ourselves. The solution to anti-gay-rights trends in black and latino communities is the same as it has always been in fights for equality: education and integration. Educate them on the similarities between the gay rights struggle and their own histories. Show them their own gay neighbors, who are really quite nice and decent people. Organize local rallies and hold them in the communities that vote against gay rights the most. Confront them with the people they're hurting, and tell them face to face exactly what it means when you deny them basic rights like marriage. Do so respectfully, even though bigoted attitudes deserve no respect, and don't condescend. The more you show people that their stereotypical bigoted views are wrong, the more hearts and minds you'll change. And don't forget the younger generation - you won't be able to change a lot of the older minds, but kids who grow up easily seeing the direct parallels between the gay rights movement and the racial civil rights movement will vote your way with much greater frequency.
And, of course, get people to vote. Old people and people who are encouraged every week by their minister or priest to get out and vote will do so. It;s the younger voters, the ones who overwhelmingly support gay rights, that tend to just stay home on voting days.
It's slow. It takes time. The civil rights movement has never been known for being a rapid process. Don't let your frustration make you hurt the very cause you support.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Taz, posted 08-28-2010 3:01 PM Taz has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 197 of 759 (638881)
10-26-2011 5:07 PM
Reply to: Message 182 by New Cat's Eye
10-26-2011 1:34 PM


Re: Lesbian couple treating son's hormones
Some are calling this child abuse, some are insinuating its a step in the right direction. I'm not sure how I feel about it yet, but it doesn't seem right.... 11 years old is pretty young.
1) This has nothing to do with gay marriage.
2) You clearly know absolutely jack and shit about transgenderism and what it or its treatment entail.
3) Even though you claim the sexual orientation of the parents is irrelevant, you specifically mention that it's extra fishy because the parents are lesbians, and you posted it in the "last gay thread," so obviously you do think the sexual orientation of the parents is relevant.
Here's a clue, CS:
Transgender individuals don;t choose to be transgender. They can choose the medical procedure to correct their defect by changing their gender, and that is all.
Transgender individuals suffer from having an opposite gender identity from their physical sex. The disorder is not a mental disorder, it cannot be treated with therapy. The only known working treatment is to reassign genders.
Transgender individuals typically know from childhood that they have the wrong body parts. There are cases of young boys trying to cut off their penises exclaiming that they are girls. Note - that they are girls, not that they want to be girls.
Gender reassignment is much easier when you begin before puberty, when secondary sexual characteristics start to show up.
Hormones taken to delay puberty do exactly that: they delay the onset of puberty. If the hormones are stopped, the person will experience natural puberty shortly thereafter with no ill effects other than going through the process a bit later. This allows the decision to change gender to be made at a slow, deliberate pace. The individual can make the decision without worrying about whether they'll grow breasts or facial hair before they're certain. They typically go through significant psychological counseling during this period.
It's not "too young." It's exactly the age to delay the onset of otherwise-immanent puberty so that the person can have the easiest transition possible, with no risk if they decline to fully transition.
Your "gut reaction" doesn't know any facts, CS.

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 Message 182 by New Cat's Eye, posted 10-26-2011 1:34 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 204 of 759 (638980)
10-27-2011 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by NoNukes
10-27-2011 5:38 AM


Still, I've personally encountered a few instances of young boys in homes without dads insisting that they were are wanted to be girls.
There is an extremely large difference between a boy who wants to be a girl and a biological male identifying as female.
Transgendered people don't want to become something.
Transgendered people already are the correct gender in their minds. Only their outward sex is wrong.

This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 217 of 759 (651450)
02-07-2012 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by subbie
02-07-2012 3:04 PM


Re: Ninth Circuit affirms
I just saw this as well, and it's great news. Do you know if the ruling takes effect immediately, allowing gay marriages in California again, or does it not take effect until the Supreme Court decides or declines to review the case?

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by subbie, posted 02-07-2012 3:04 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 259 of 759 (652560)
02-14-2012 3:00 PM
Reply to: Message 255 by nwr
02-14-2012 11:37 AM


I think you are misreading public opinion.
Not necessarily. Take a second look at the same chart, but look at 2005.
Perhaps Taz' public-opinion-barometer was last checked in the recent past. Certainly anyone could be forgiven for believing that public support for gay rights is relatively low on the basis of events in recent years, particularly the passing of Prop (h)8 in California (though granted that vote was far from "overwhelming").
Whatever their actual representation in the population, there is a very vocal subset of Americans who really do hate homosexuals, though many of them would deny that hatred (if you "support gay rights" but oppose gay marriage, you don;t really support gay rights, and there are many such people). The Mormons poured unbelievable sums of money into multiple states with gay marriage-related propositions on the ballot, including California for Prop (h)8. A scant 7 years or so ago, I witnessed a disturbing anti-gay rally right here in my own city, comprised of a hundred or so individuals (mostly looking high school age) waving signs with slogans just this side of Fred Phelps!
But look at the chart. Public support was poor just a few years ago. It's swinging in the right direction a few percentage points every year...and now we're finally starting to break the 50% mark. If we're lucky, that will actually apply to likely voters as opposed to just the population in general.
Public opinion is definitely changing, and that's both a good thing and completely expected based on civil rights trends in the past. It took courts to legalize interracial marriage and to force racial integration in schools, but after the sky once again failed to fall, public support followed, and now it's only a socially regressive ultra-minority of hatemongers who would support overturning those rulings. It (mostly) took courts to legalize ay marriage in the states that have it...but as the sky continues to not fall, public opinion will continue to sway in the favor of equality. That doesn't mean that we should just "wait it out," but it does mean that victory for the supporters of equality is nigh inevitable if we simply keep at it.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 255 by nwr, posted 02-14-2012 11:37 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


(2)
Message 267 of 759 (652903)
02-16-2012 5:58 PM
Reply to: Message 266 by Taz
02-16-2012 5:37 PM


All of the mentioned rights gained are useless if the societal attitude remains the same. The fact that a political candidate can gain vast amounts of support by essentially saying he hates fags and wants them back in the closet is proof enough that almost nothing has changed.
Take a deep breath.
Now, compare the modern fight for gay rights to the racial civil rights movement.
Legal issues, decided by courts, came first. Segregation and interracial marriage were not issues decided at the ballot box, they were decided in the courts. Public opinion was not at all in the overwhelming favor of civil rights proponents. MLKJr was assassinated.
Public support for civil rights came afterward. The forced integration of schools and society basically enabled the development of tolerance and acceptance and eventually to the point where, today, racists are almost universally shunned.
Gay rights are no different. It;s not unexpected (to the rationally-minded person) that courts should rant the first victories to gays, while public support remains lower. It is expected however, and shown in trending data, that public support for gay rights will improve over time in the wake of those legal victories.
Yes, we want everyone to be equal, under the law and in the mind of the average person, right now. We want it 10 years ago. It's not right to treat gays differently now, and it wasn't right before now, and it won't be right tomorrow. But the reality is that public opinion is lethargic, and often needs a push from the courts to move things along. The more society in general sees gays as normal, productive members of society that are no different from them whatsoever beyond the particular set of genitals they feel attracted to, the more the average person will be convinced that gays are the same as everyone else and should be treated the same. It will take time, but history shows us that we will see gradually increasing equality, first legally and then in the hearts and minds of the public. All we need is patience and perseverance.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 266 by Taz, posted 02-16-2012 5:37 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 268 by Taq, posted 02-16-2012 6:12 PM Rahvin has replied
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


(1)
Message 270 of 759 (652911)
02-16-2012 6:35 PM
Reply to: Message 268 by Taq
02-16-2012 6:12 PM


Perhaps it is the older generations that need a push into the grave before public opinion changes?
If that were the case, then progress would occur regardless of court cases or activism, and that's not what history has shown. We have an easily identifiable pattern - the old prejudices will remain under their own inertia unless something is done to foment a change.
That change is enabled by forcing the public at large to deal with the minority in question. Eliminate segregation, make their presence obvious, use the law to force equal treatment in the workplace and for educational opportunities and for marriage. The obvious presence of the minority as equals slowly changes the public consciousness to accept them as such.
Old people may be more set in their ways, or perhaps retirement simply bypasses the forced coexistence younger generations see in schools and the workplace. It certainly doesn't help that the elderly tend to vote more frequently than younger generations. But the elderly don't bear even majority responsibility for the problem.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

This message is a reply to:
 Message 268 by Taq, posted 02-16-2012 6:12 PM Taq has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 327 of 759 (661737)
05-09-2012 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 326 by Jazzns
05-09-2012 5:35 PM


Re: Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
He supported full gay marriage way back in the 90s.
quote:
Obama’s remarks today bring him full circle to his position in 1996, when he was running for the Illinois state Senate. In response to a questionnaire from Chicago’s Outlines gay newspaper, he proclaimed, I favor legalizing same-sex marriages, and would fight efforts to prohibit such marriages.
His "evolution" has merely been to pull back on support for equality for political advantage during his first Presidential bid. He's now simply returned to his previous stance openly. Obama is a politician first, and all of his publicly avowed positions flow from that.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 326 by Jazzns, posted 05-09-2012 5:35 PM Jazzns has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 329 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2012 6:17 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 330 of 759 (661757)
05-09-2012 6:53 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by NoNukes
05-09-2012 6:17 PM


Re: Proof of Evolution! Watch it happen live on TV!
Do you think Obama sees a political advantage in being on the record as supporting gay marriage?
I think Obama has been walking a very fine political line, and that the recent developments in NC have made him feel even greater pressure from his base to get with the program. He's long been receiving heat from equality-minded groups (which means a very large portion of the Democratic party) since he became President for not going far enough to support gay rights.
I think it's a calculated political risk. I don't think he sees "advantage" so much as "if I don't make a clear statement in favor of gay marriage now, I might find a large portion of my base becoming apathetic in November." Damage control rather than gain, in other words.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.
- Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of
variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the
outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." Barash, David 1995.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 329 by NoNukes, posted 05-09-2012 6:17 PM NoNukes has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 353 of 759 (701800)
06-26-2013 12:11 PM
Reply to: Message 352 by ooh-child
06-26-2013 11:21 AM


Re: Supreme Court punts
"Support" from the community or not, all that would happen is a lawsuit against the County (and possibly the clerk her/himself) for unlawful discrimination.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 352 by ooh-child, posted 06-26-2013 11:21 AM ooh-child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 354 by ooh-child, posted 06-26-2013 1:08 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 355 of 759 (701809)
06-26-2013 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 354 by ooh-child
06-26-2013 1:08 PM


Re: Supreme Court punts
And provide a rally point for the conservative commentators who are vowing to oppose the courts' rulings.
Yet how would they accomplish that? How could they possibly win such a case, when the Supreme Court has already weighed in on the matter? The 9th Circuit ruling stands: Prop 8 was unconstitutional, plain and simple. The bigots can do all they want - there's no higher court to appeal to any longer. All they can do now is try for a Federal COnstitutional amendment...and that's just not happening.
Or is there some potential legal nonsense I'm not aware of?

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 354 by ooh-child, posted 06-26-2013 1:08 PM ooh-child has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by onifre, posted 06-26-2013 1:33 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 358 by subbie, posted 06-26-2013 3:10 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 359 by ooh-child, posted 06-26-2013 3:27 PM Rahvin has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


(2)
Message 360 of 759 (701834)
06-26-2013 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 359 by ooh-child
06-26-2013 3:27 PM


Re: Supreme Court punts
I see. Well, that could certainly happen. It would be foolish, because the clerk and the county would be sued, but I don't think many would be surprised that bigots are often fools.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 359 by ooh-child, posted 06-26-2013 3:27 PM ooh-child has seen this message but not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


Message 362 of 759 (701839)
06-26-2013 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 361 by Tangle
06-26-2013 5:25 PM


Well...at leas the next such disaster will be our "punishment." After all you can't expect god to hold to a schedule - he'll punish us in "the fullness of time."
Which of course is a fancy way of saying "eventually a disaster will happen, and we'll just use that as proof that god is pissed over this specific event, and idiots will believe us."

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 361 by Tangle, posted 06-26-2013 5:25 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4024
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.8


(3)
Message 532 of 759 (702814)
07-11-2013 1:14 PM
Reply to: Message 502 by Faith
07-11-2013 11:01 AM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Hi Faith. I'm sorry, but you said something that's blatantly factually incorrect that touches on my own personal experiences, and I have to call you out on it.
AIDS is overwhelmingly the disease of homosexuality though Political Correctness requires that not be recognized.
HIV/AIDS is not at all "overwhelmingly the disease of homosexuality."
Not even remotely.
The vast, vast majority of cases of HIV/AIDS are heterosexual. No, I don't mean when a bisexual person contracts HIV with a homosexual partner and then spreads it through heterosexual intercourse to another partner. I mean simple, straight sex.
I dated a girl with HIV for several years. Lived with her. I'm heterosexual. She contracted it from a heterosexual partner who didn't know he was infected. They usually used condoms...but not always.
See, most people just assume that they don't have HIV. Most people even think exactly what you just said: that HIV/AIDS is a problem for homosexuals, but heterosexuals don't get it very often.
That attitude is directly responsible, coupled with the lack of safe sex practices (including the results of abstinence-only education, like "anal doesn't count" without a condom...), for a new surge in HIV infection rates.
No, I'm not HIV-positive. Yes, I've been tested. See, my ex and I used condoms.
Through my ex I heard many stories from the HIV-positive community. Interestingly enough, not one of the anecdotes she shared was from a homosexual individual. Every last one was heterosexual. One contracted the virus from his wife, who cheated on him with another man. One was infected by a tainted blood transfusion after a car accident in another country.
HIV/AIDS today is on an upswing in the US. But it's even worse in Africa...
...in countries that have an even lower tolerance for homosexuality than you do yourself. There are literally millions of HIV/AIDS patients in various nations of Africa, and damned near all of them are heterosexual.
HIV/AIDS is a disease of unprotected sex, and not at all even remotely a disease of homosexuality.
You're wrong.
You're more than just wrong - you're wrong in a way that actually promotes the spread of the disease by falsely associating HIV with gays, leading heterosexuals to ignore the problem and unknowingly spread it themselves.
I'd like you to retract your statement and apologize. If you're unconvinced as to your wrongness, I can easily begin providing large amounts of data to prove my case - simply let me know what you would find convincing.
But you must acknowledge the reality of HIV/AIDS infection, that sexual orientation is incidental, that it is unprotected sex, and not simply same-sex intercourse, that spreads the disease.
To fail to acknowledge these facts makes you complicit in the spread of a lethal disease.

The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it. - Francis Bacon
"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers
A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity. — Albert Camus
"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...
"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

This message is a reply to:
 Message 502 by Faith, posted 07-11-2013 11:01 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 533 by New Cat's Eye, posted 07-11-2013 1:59 PM Rahvin has not replied
 Message 535 by onifre, posted 07-11-2013 3:00 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
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