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Author Topic:   Landmark gay marriage trial starts today in California
dwise1
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Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 19 of 759 (572237)
08-04-2010 8:44 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Taz
08-04-2010 7:40 PM


There was a haunting scene in Das schreckliche Mdchen (The Nasty Girl, 1991). It was presented as based on a true story in which stories she was told all her life inspire a Bavarian high school student to write an essay on how bravely the people of her town had resisted the Nazis. But when she discovers that they had instead collaborated completely, the town turned against her, including violence. Until she starts receiving honors from leading universities for her research, whereupon suddenly they start treating her nicely as if nothing had ever happened.
At that point, she, as the film's narrator, concludes, "Das war ja ein ganz schnes Happy-Ending" ("That was a beautiful happy ending."). But that look in her eyes.
At that time, I had myself just recently been a victim of the Boy Scouts' mindless campaign of religious discrimination. I knew that look in her eyes. As must Carolyn King and Constance McMillen.
We will never forget.
Wo wart ihr dann? Wo seid ihr jetzt?"
(Where were you then? Where are you now?)

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 21 of 759 (572261)
08-05-2010 1:31 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Taz
08-04-2010 8:53 PM


No, I'm straight. I'm also an atheist. It was BSA's irrational religious discrimination I was referring to, not their irrational homophobia. And in excluding me BSA had to repeatedly violate its own officially published rules and policies.
Haven't watched that film myself for over a decade. Should pull the tape out.
I'm just sitting here in awe about the fake prom thing. Back in the 60's I could understand the whole town taking part in the cruelty. The whole damn south was a cesspool back then. I just can't believe not a single school official, student, or parent had a conflicted conscience about this. I mean, this is 2010 for fuck's sake. Jesus H Christ!
The cesspool is still there and has spread out. They just cover it up better and use deoderizers.
Gays and atheists are still open targets for virulent discrimination. It may soon just be atheists, which is progress of a sort.


Catchy line from United States of Tara delivered by a straight girl hanging out with the gay students:
I'm straight, but not narrow.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 64 of 759 (572424)
08-05-2010 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by jar
08-05-2010 2:44 PM


Marriage in the US is a purely secular contract. Churches can hold ceremonies celebrating or sanctifying that marriage.
And my understanding of the problem is that the "separate but not really equal" options offered to gay couples do not provide the same guarantees as that secular marriage contract; eg, medical insurance, survivor benefits, next-of-kin rights. Whatever we end up calling it, gays need to have the exact same "married" rights as straights.
Whether they can have a church sanctify their union should be between them and the church(es) in question. If a church refuses them, as I'm sure many would, then would they really want to have anything to do with that church? But despite such refusals, there are also many churches and clergy who would be more than happy to marry them I'm vaguely aware of some mainstream churches, plus there are undoubtedly "activist" priests and ministers. But a sure bet would be a Unitarian-Universalist church, which has long been very supportive of gay rights.
PS
Why don't we try to learn from real-world working examples? From what I understand, both Canada and Mexico have gay marriage. How do they handle it?
Also, I know that for decades Mexico has had separate civil and religious marriage -- in the earliest 1950's my in-laws married in Mexico City and they were legally married by the state a few days before the church ceremony; my father-in-law tried to talk her into a wedding night between the two ceremonies since they were already legally married, but she insisted on the church ceremony first.
Edited by dwise1, : PS

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 228 of 759 (652040)
02-11-2012 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 226 by subbie
02-10-2012 3:26 PM


OK ... so just how exactly did she lie?

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dwise1
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Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 230 of 759 (652044)
02-11-2012 11:13 PM
Reply to: Message 229 by Omnivorous
02-11-2012 10:59 PM


That's it? Something that has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with "the debate"?
She's a Republican. She's supposed to oppose same-sex marriage. That's her party-culture's requirement of her, if not her party's. But instead of being a typical party tool, she decided to be a Mensch, a genuine person. She spoke from her heart and her heart told her plainly and clearly that this hatred against love is wrong.
She spoke the truth, from her heart. I cannot see how she had lied, except perhaps in a very narrow literalist interpretation. But then I have never been a literalist ... except when I read the Bible which then led to my becoming an atheist.
PS
And even though none of us knows just exactly who "Eloquent" is, whether he/she gets waxed or not, and by whom, should always be kept in private.
PPS
Ever hear of sotol?
Edited by dwise1, : PS
Edited by dwise1, : PPS

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 232 of 759 (652048)
02-11-2012 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 231 by Omnivorous
02-11-2012 11:29 PM


Subtle irony?
Not really, that I could see. Yes, she did say that she would not wax eloquent, yet she did. That would have been true of any issue under consideration.
The "debate" was and is about same-sex marriage. Her party would have anticipated her coming out against, yet her own self and experience brought her out in favor.
But still, the fact of her waxing eloquent when she said she wouldn't has no bearing on the issue itself.
The state drink of Chihuahua and Durango?
Sounds intriguing. I'll check it out.
For medicinal purposes.
Years ago, my suegra (mother-in-law) send me a humor list, "Sabes que eres mexicano cuando:" ("You know you're Mexican when ... "; OBTW, she's Mexican). One entry was:
"4. Piensas que el Tequila cura la gripa y otras enfermedades." ("you think that tequila cures the flu and other illnesses.").
When I have a sore throat or a bad muscle pain, I take tequila for it. It does seem to help. Especially as a muscle relaxant.
The sotol is a related plant to the agave.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 395 of 759 (702111)
07-01-2013 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 394 by NoNukes
07-01-2013 11:29 AM


Re: Res judicata, maybe...
But on what grounds would they sue if Prop 8 has been struck down? As I understand it, Judge Walker ruled Prop 8 to be unconstitutional thus striking it down, the appellate court upheld Judge Walker's ruling, and the US Supreme Court returned it to the appellate court. What current California law is left for the opponents of marriage equality to use?

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 414 of 759 (702312)
07-04-2013 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 412 by NoNukes
07-04-2013 12:17 AM


Re: How does the striking down of DOMA affect cities?
In some states, like NC and AZ, where there is a constitution provision against gay marriage as well as an electorate that wants it that way, I don't see a rapid path away from bigotry.
What of the ruling on interracial marriage in Loving v. Virginia? How did that play out in all the other states?
No, seriously, I don't know so I am asking. But it certainly seems that it didn't take long.
BTW, I rather liked her comment 40 years after the decision (2007):
quote:
I believe all Americans, no matter their race, no matter their sex, no matter their sexual orientation, should have that same freedom to marry... I am still not a political person, but I am proud that Richard’s and my name is on a court case that can help reinforce the love, the commitment, the fairness and the family that so many people, black or white, young or old, gay or straight, seek in life. I support the freedom to marry for all. That’s what Loving, and loving, are all about.
It's all about loving.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5925
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 493 of 759 (702743)
07-11-2013 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 492 by hooah212002
07-11-2013 7:31 AM


Re: Pointy Sticks
Well, since pedophilia includes adult men preying on young girls and adult women preying on young boys, then by Faith's divine reasoning we should also outlaw different-sex marriage.

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