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Author Topic:   Size of the universe
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1701
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 166 of 248 (669340)
07-29-2012 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 164 by NoNukes
07-26-2012 8:50 AM


Re: A question about scale
Well, the comparison is off by 10 orders of magnitude.

Sure but they are ten of the small ones.

And the "coincidence" is an artifact of our choice of measurement units.

I guess we did choose the meter but not the plank length or the size of the observable universe and we chose it before we knew the other two parameters. I see what you are saying though.

The one joy of ignorance is that I get to be constantly amazed by the mundane.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 164 by NoNukes, posted 07-26-2012 8:50 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

  
ProtoTypical
Member
Posts: 1701
From: Ontario Canada
Joined: 08-04-2010
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 167 of 248 (669341)
07-29-2012 8:24 AM
Reply to: Message 165 by cavediver
07-28-2012 11:24 AM


Re: A question about scale
Hey Cavediver good to see you around again.

Yep, ignore the naysayers

It is obvious man. Every which way that I look I can see the same distance so I must be in the middle.

Have I missed much?

Well they found that missing boson while you were gone but perhaps you heard about it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by cavediver, posted 07-28-2012 11:24 AM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 168 by cavediver, posted 07-29-2012 10:30 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
cavediver
Member (Idle past 995 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


(4)
Message 168 of 248 (669345)
07-29-2012 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 167 by ProtoTypical
07-29-2012 8:24 AM


Re: A question about scale
Well they found that missing boson while you were gone but perhaps you heard about it.

Yeah, I guess I should have been here for that. I have to say that on the announcement, I punched the air and welled up a fair bit. I surpised myself at my own reaction


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by ProtoTypical, posted 07-29-2012 8:24 AM ProtoTypical has acknowledged this reply

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 169 of 248 (669389)
07-29-2012 6:11 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by cavediver
07-18-2011 6:21 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
So, Crankdriver, you say that gravity is a reaction of metric to itself and to stress-energy tensor. Metric is a map, the tensor is the vectors or markers on that map. Are you telling the cat that gravity is map playing with itself with no territory needed to be present in the relation?
Could you pass the cat some of what you are smoking there? The moggy would love a hit of that.
You say Newt is too primitive for your gravitational tastes and that you derive such notions from Einstein's GR.
Are you aware that Einstein himself held black holes to be a bunch of superstitious nonsense?

Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by cavediver, posted 07-18-2011 6:21 PM cavediver has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 6:19 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded
 Message 176 by NoNukes, posted 07-29-2012 8:24 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded
 Message 188 by cavediver, posted 07-30-2012 6:22 AM Alfred Maddenstein has not yet responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15476
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 170 of 248 (669390)
07-29-2012 6:19 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 6:11 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
You appear to have crossed the line between mere nonsense and actual schizophasia. Please consult your doctor.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:11 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:30 PM Dr Adequate has responded
 Message 173 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:45 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 171 of 248 (669391)
07-29-2012 6:30 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Dr Adequate
07-29-2012 6:19 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
Inadequate, you are boring as usual. Keep your advice and insinuations to yourself and keep your nose down to the grindstone. That is, the subject.
Defend the concept of black holes if you can, or if you cannot do that just keep quiet. Understood?
This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 6:19 PM Dr Adequate has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 6:43 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

  
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15476
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 172 of 248 (669396)
07-29-2012 6:43 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 6:30 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
Whereas the concept of black holes is in no need of defense, you are apparently in need of medication. Once again I would urge you to consult a physician: show him the sort of things you've been posting on this forum lately, and see what he says. If you are sane, as you presumably believe, you will have lost nothing but half an hour's time. If, on the other hand, you are experiencing a psychotic break, as your increasingly fractured posting style seems to suggest, then this will be half-an-hour well spent, and I will have done you a service.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:30 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 11:37 PM Dr Adequate has responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 173 of 248 (669397)
07-29-2012 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 170 by Dr Adequate
07-29-2012 6:19 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
Otherwise if you have any doubts as to what Einstein's attitude on the issue was, consult his 1939 paper on the subject where he analysed Schwarzschild's suggestions and so on.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 6:19 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Panda, posted 07-29-2012 6:58 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1064 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 174 of 248 (669399)
07-29-2012 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 6:45 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
Alfred Maddenstein writes:

Otherwise if you have any doubts as to what Einstein's attitude on the issue was, consult his 1939 paper on the subject where he analysed Schwarzschild's suggestions and so on.


How is quoting one of Einstein's mistakes going to support your claim?
Or do you think Einstein was infallible?

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:45 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 175 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 8:13 PM Panda has responded
 Message 178 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 8:43 PM Panda has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 175 of 248 (669408)
07-29-2012 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Panda
07-29-2012 6:58 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
What are those mistakes in Einstein's paper that you allege here, Panda? I don't find any. He may have made some mistakes but that paper was not one of them to be sure.
The gist of the paper is that division by zero is a grave error, infinities are but potentialities and not anything to do with anything physical and concrete and therefore singularities should be considered to be just a fancy mathematical construct. No mistake at all but only an outright rejection of all the bigbangist nonsense that the big bangers have the gall to attribute to the fellow innocent of that type of idiocy.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Panda, posted 07-29-2012 6:58 PM Panda has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 8:31 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded
 Message 180 by Panda, posted 07-29-2012 9:13 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

  
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9327
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 176 of 248 (669410)
07-29-2012 8:24 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 6:11 PM


Your point is...
Defend the concept of black holes if you can, or if you cannot do that just keep quiet. Understood?

Regarding your complaint that Dr. Adequate is off topic, one might note that your post haranguing Cavediver has nothing to do with the topic of this thread. Apparently you are playing some kind of whack-a-mole game in which you beset your favorite physicist whenever he appears.

But let's take a look at the message you posted. In the interest of brevity and peace, I've snipped ALL of the gratuitous, graceless crap.

...you say that gravity is a reaction of metric to itself and to stress-energy tensor. Metric is a map, the tensor is the vectors or markers on that map.

[snip]

Are you aware that Einstein himself held black holes to be a bunch of superstitious nonsense?

Einstein's opinion on black holes notwithstanding, Cavediver's statements about metric and the stress energy tensor are statements with which Einstein would have been in complete agreement. Which makes your remark rather silly.

As for black holes, they are predicted by Einstein's theory and we have evidence that they exist. But I'm wondering about a post in which you invoke Einstein as an expert in your attempt to ridicule a poster and then then ridicule Einsteinian ideas all a few sentences later.

ABE:

Here is a link to the paper AM mentioned.

"On a Stationary System With Spherical Symmetry Consisting of Many Gravitating Masses"

http://www.cscamm.umd.edu/...files/EinsteinSchwarzschild.pdf

Here is a link to some discussion about the paper

http://cosmoquest.org/...prove-black-holes-cannot-exist-quot

Edited by NoNukes, : No reason given.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 6:11 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-30-2012 12:30 AM NoNukes has responded

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15476
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 177 of 248 (669411)
07-29-2012 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 8:13 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
No mistake at all but only an outright rejection of all the bigbangist nonsense that the big bangers have the gall to attribute to the fellow innocent of that type of idiocy.

"This is the most beautiful and satisfactory explanation of creation to which I have ever listened." --- Albert Einstein on Georges Lemaître's exposition of the Big Bang.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 8:13 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 9:06 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 178 of 248 (669413)
07-29-2012 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Panda
07-29-2012 6:58 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
The record concerning Einstein has to be put straight, that's all. Now both parties -bigbangists and anti-bigbangers - are guilty of mixing Einstein with all the nonsense other people patched upon the relativity theory. There is this chap, Stephen Crothers, who is one the best black hole and big bunk debunkers. Now from his, otherwise excellent papers, it could be mistakenly concluded that Einstein himself had a hand in concocting the concepts of light trapped by gravity and that of the big bunk singularity. I personally have sent him the 1939 paper in order to disabuse him of such an erroneous view.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Panda, posted 07-29-2012 6:58 PM Panda has not yet responded

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 1319 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 179 of 248 (669417)
07-29-2012 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 177 by Dr Adequate
07-29-2012 8:31 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
That was exactly what Stephen Crothers quoted in conversation with me accusing Einstein of being as much a creationist as the Belgian chap. I had to explain to Stephen that even if Einstein had been impressed by the enthusiasm the Belgian was presenting his baby with may not mean that Albert himself would subscribe to the creationist primeval egg idea. No need to mix science and poetry. Einstein liked Edgar Poe poem in prose on the same subject too. That does not mean he ascribed to the poem any validity as a basis for a physics hypothesis or that he rushed to rewrite his own cosmology upon reading it.

Edited by Alfred Maddenstein, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by Dr Adequate, posted 07-29-2012 8:31 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1064 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 180 of 248 (669418)
07-29-2012 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Alfred Maddenstein
07-29-2012 8:13 PM


Re: Redundant Offense
Alfred Maddenstein writes:

What are those mistakes in Einstein's paper that you allege here, Panda?


Einstein didn't have a complete understanding of what a black hole is.

Alfred Maddenstein writes:

The gist of the paper is...


...based on an incomplete understanding of what a black hole is.

Your assumption that there has been no advances in knowledge since 1939 is preposterous - and can only be because it contradicts your beliefs.


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 8:13 PM Alfred Maddenstein has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 07-29-2012 9:47 PM Panda has responded

  
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