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Author Topic:   Dawkins and "The Great Tim Tebow Fallacy" (re: pro-life advertisement)
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 11 of 167 (545662)
02-04-2010 6:45 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Rahvin
02-04-2010 4:44 PM


Religion meets reality.
Some interesting facts that may or may not bear on this discussion:
When human females are born, their ovaries already contain all the eggs they will produce in their lifetime. These number about 200,000 to 300,000 eggs and all form in the seventh and eighth month of gestation. During their approximately 30 fecund years they will release only about 400 of these eggs for potential fertilization, so over 99.9% of the eggs are "wasted". It is not just the vast majority of male sperm, which are produced continuously during adulthood, that go unused;
Approximately 65% of all the released eggs that get fertilized abort naturally due to various causes: fail to implant, the egg or sperm is dysfunctional, the uterine lining rejects the egg, and other causes. Thus, nature (or god) can be seen to be an avid abortionist;
Probably a little off topic, but still very interesting: When a woman gives birth to identical twin boys or girls, she is said to have two sons or daughters. This is not accurate. She has a son and a grandson or a daughter and a granddaughter. The sequence of events leading to birth of identical twins is: an egg is fertilized; the fertilized egg (the conceptus) begins to divide into 2, 4, 8, 16, etc. cells; at the blastula or 'ball-like' phase (32 to 128 cells) one of the cells buds off the clump and begins to develop independently. Note that at the blastula phase, one or several cells can be removed from the clump without affecting the outcome of the pregnancy. A fully normal baby is born. In fact, it is now common with in-vitro fertilization to remove one of the blastula cells to check it (destructively) for genetic defects.
The secondary twin is thus the cloned daughter/son of the primary twin and the granddaughter/grandson of the lady who had all the fun. This twin is not conceived! She/he is cloned! Those who worry about the prospect of cloning humans should be aware that in 0.4% of all birth events (about 2,000 in the US) human clones are currently produced every year. And those whose religious doctrines teach that the soul enters a human at the moment of conception should worry that 2,000 soulless humans are being born every year in the US alone. The validity of their doctrinal teachings can be easily tested by checking if one of each pair of identical twins is an amoral, antisocial, psychopath.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Rahvin, posted 02-04-2010 4:44 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2010 7:19 PM AnswersInGenitals has replied

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member (Idle past 173 days)
Posts: 673
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 37 of 167 (545953)
02-06-2010 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Blue Jay
02-04-2010 7:19 PM


Re: Religion meets reality.
Technically, then, I could also say that only the zygote (the first embryonic cell) is the woman's son or daughter, and all the rest of the cells in the child's body are not.
You could say that, but technically you'd be incorrect. Technically, there is a specific definition for the term "daughter", whether it correspond to asexual reproduction as in binary fission or budding (cloning), or sexual reproduction, and this definition specifies "daughter" to be the entire descendent entity, not just the first descendent cell produced (with the exception of single celled life forms).
However, given that, I actually like your definition better. It leads to the concept of all of humanity, from its earliest members to the present, as a form of integrated ooze on the face of the earth. It is estimated that the total number of humans that have ever been born is about 100 billion. Each human has approximately 100 trillion cells. Thus, this ooze reproduces almost exclusively by asexual binary fission with only an infrequent incidence of horizontal gene transfer- at an substantially rate than the incidence of gene transfer observed in bacteria. That this ooze tends to partition into small clumps (and that those clumps tend to exhibit the strange and unproductive behavior of posting in internet forums) does not detract from the validity of this view of humanity, which we'll henceforth call the 'huooze'. This view also immediately leads to an obvious resolution of the whole issue about abortion/anti-abortion/choice/anti-choice.
(I threw in that last line so that the moderators wouldn't accuse me of going off topic.)

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 Message 14 by Blue Jay, posted 02-04-2010 7:19 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
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