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Author Topic:   TEXAS! Dumbass Central!!!
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 46 of 91 (547538)
02-19-2010 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 9:53 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Okydoke. So now, in light of the Utube link, how can we be sure we don't have a fake? Wouldn't it be nice for the man to just produce the signed notorized long form and put it all to rest?
Here you go Buzz. Factcheck.org, an independent, non-partisan, non-profit political fact checking organization conducted an independent investigation here: Born in the U.S.A. with photos of original documents.
Besides, natural-born citizenship does not require you to be born in the US, just that you are born of parents who are U.S. citizens. Read Section 1401, Title 8 of the US Code below:
Currently, Title 8 of the U.S. Code fills in those gaps. Section 1401 defines the following as people who are "citizens of the United States at birth:"
Anyone born inside the United States *
Any Indian or Eskimo born in the United States, provided being a citizen of the U.S. does not impair the person's status as a citizen of the tribe
Any one born outside the United States, both of whose parents are citizens of the U.S., as long as one parent has lived in the U.S.
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year and the other parent is a U.S. national
Any one born in a U.S. possession, if one parent is a citizen and lived in the U.S. for at least one year
Any one found in the U.S. under the age of five, whose parentage cannot be determined, as long as proof of non-citizenship is not provided by age 21
Any one born outside the United States, if one parent is an alien and as long as the other parent is a citizen of the U.S. who lived in the U.S. for at least five years (with military and diplomatic service included in this time)
A final, historical condition: a person born before 5/24/1934 of an alien father and a U.S. citizen mother who has lived in the U.S.
* There is an exception in the law the person must be "subject to the jurisdiction" of the United States. This would exempt the child of a diplomat, for example, from this provision.
Otherwise, McCain, himself born in the Panama Canal Zone or any military brat like myself born overseas would not be eligible to run for President either.
Stop being an ignoramous Buzz. He was born in the USA and even if he wasn't he was a natural-born citizen of the U.S.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 9:53 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by subbie, posted 02-19-2010 10:49 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:10 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 47 of 91 (547539)
02-19-2010 10:39 PM


Re: About Those Great Texans
I've spent some time in Texas and traveled through it a number of times over the years hauling stuff. I was stationed in two bases in Texas while in the USAF. The good folks of Texas were the most hospitible of any state I've been in, for the most part. When I left, jet mechanics training at Amarillo, the church folks had a going away party for me. On one trip through I broke a crank shaft on a truck camper. A little garage owner let me and my family stay in his garage in the camper over night and during the day while he pulled the engine and replaced the crank shaft.
.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 49 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 10:51 PM Buzsaw has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 48 of 91 (547541)
02-19-2010 10:49 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by DevilsAdvocate
02-19-2010 10:34 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Let me explain one little part of that.
Across the bottom, you will see
This copy serves as prima facie evidence of the fact of birth in any court proceeding.
What that means is that if anyone questions President Obama's place of birth, all he has to do is produce that document. The burden then shifts on anyone challenging his citizenship to produce facts, not argument, speculation, fantasy or wishes, to refute the evidence.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 10:34 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 10:56 PM subbie has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 49 of 91 (547542)
02-19-2010 10:51 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 10:39 PM


Re: About Those Great Texans
My Mother and Grandmother are both from Witchita Falls, Texas and my grandmother and uncle still lives in Brownsville, TX. I also lived at Dyess AFB in Abilene a couple of years as a kid.
It is stereotyping to say all Texan's are idiots and I take personal offense to anyone who insinuate this as many great people have come from this state.
I seriously don't think that is what people are doing on this board though.
What they are basically saying is that the 50-60% that believe humans and dinasour lived like the Flintstones make the rest of us 40-50% Texan's shake our heads in shame. In other words, it is a collective emberassment to an otherwise great state.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 10:39 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:16 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 50 of 91 (547543)
02-19-2010 10:56 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by subbie
02-19-2010 10:49 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
What that means is that if anyone questions President Obama's place of birth, all he has to do is produce that document. The burden then shifts on anyone challenging his citizenship to produce facts, not argument, speculation, fantasy or wishes, to refute the evidence.
Agreed. Just like if anyone contact's there birth state's Vital Record department, for there birth certificate, they absolutely WILL NOT get there original birth certificate but rather a State certified copy in similar fashion to the photos of Obama's certificate of live birth.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by subbie, posted 02-19-2010 10:49 PM subbie has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 51 of 91 (547544)
02-19-2010 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Dr Adequate
02-19-2010 10:33 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
The short "birth certificate" form is as equally valid as the "long form". Both are CERTIFIED by the birth state to be true.
The long form has personnel private information that most people do not want divulged to the public much less the entire world. Hence, the reason for publically releasing the equally valid short form.
Also, most states only provide one type of certified birth certificate, the certificate of live birth aka the "short form". A copy of the long form (the hospital's full live birth form) is usually given to the parents at birth and a the original may or may not reside at the State's vital records department depending on how there system is set up. I know I have never gotten a long form of my birth certificate from my birth state nor one for my daughter either.
Birther's will never be satisfied even if photos and video are shown of Obama's mother giving birth to him in a hospital in Hawaii. They would still say it was a forgery. This is getting beyond the point of assanine. Obama has provided more proof of his natural-born citizenship than any president in US history.
End of story.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Add more comments

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2010 10:33 PM Dr Adequate has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 52 of 91 (547546)
02-19-2010 11:10 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by DevilsAdvocate
02-19-2010 10:34 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Hi D A. The copy you've produced appears to be the same one on the Utube cited as a fake and the reasons why; one being that African is not a race. The race should read, Negro which is a race. The document border, etc do not match the original according to the link etc.
Did you bother to listen to and see the Utube data?

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 10:34 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by subbie, posted 02-19-2010 11:12 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 56 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 11:28 PM Buzsaw has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1245 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


(1)
Message 53 of 91 (547547)
02-19-2010 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 11:10 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Prima facie evidence, Buz. That means present facts, not speculation, fantasy or wishes. Any facts?

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:10 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 54 of 91 (547550)
02-19-2010 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by DevilsAdvocate
02-19-2010 10:51 PM


Re: About Those Great Texans
DA writes:
What they are basically saying is that the 50-60% that believe humans and dinasour lived like the Flintstones make the rest of us 40-50% Texan's shake our heads in shame. In other words, it is a collective emberassment to an otherwise great state. I feel the same shame by saying the George Bush is a Texan (which is only partly true sense that his family was originally from Conneticut and moved to TX when he was a toddler).
Those are the objective ones who've visited the evidence at Glen Rose that skeptics have pshawed.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 10:51 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-19-2010 11:32 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 58 by Dr Adequate, posted 02-19-2010 11:33 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 55 of 91 (547551)
02-19-2010 11:18 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Look, here's the webpage of the State of Hawaii Department of Health, telling its citizens how to get birth certificates.
And here's the application form.
Note that there's no option here to get a "signed notorized long form", whatever that is, nor a photocopy of such a thing. It seems to be a case of "one size fits all".
Nonetheless, I shall admit that the feat is possible if you will show me just one of Hawaii's million-plus citizens who (after 2001) has actually managed to get the State of Hawaii Department of Health to issue them with one of these mysterious documents.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 10:27 PM Buzsaw has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 56 of 91 (547553)
02-19-2010 11:28 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 11:10 PM


Re: Long Form Hold Back
Hi D A. The copy you've produced appears to be the same one on the Utube cited as a fake and the reasons why; one being that African is not a race. The race should read, Negro which is a race. The document border, etc do not match the original according to the link etc.
Is this the best evidence you have Buzsaw? People flub up on forms all the time. Believe me. I am in the military and it is a common occurance.
Here is a Hawaiian birth certificate that has "American" and "Hawaiian" as races
Here is another one that says "Caucassion Hawaiian" for the mother and "White" for the father:
The document border, etc do not match the original according to the link
?? Document borders, seals, etc change even within the same state through time. The state certified that the birth certificate is true. Or are you saying the state committed purjery? If you think so prove it in a court of law.
Did you bother to listen to and see the Utube data?
Did you bother reading FactCheck.com's independent investigation?
Keep digging Buzzsaw. No matter what I show you or the logic behind it you won't accept it.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : Correct myself on race
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:10 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Buzsaw, posted 02-20-2010 8:16 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 57 of 91 (547554)
02-19-2010 11:32 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 11:16 PM


Re: About Those Great Texans
Those are the objective ones who've visited the evidence at Glen Rose that skeptics have pshawed.
Whatever floats your boat Buzz. Have fun in your dillusions.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 275 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 58 of 91 (547555)
02-19-2010 11:33 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by Buzsaw
02-19-2010 11:16 PM


Re: About Those Great Texans
Those are the objective ones who've visited the evidence at Glen Rose that skeptics have pshawed.
In this case the "skeptics" include most creationist groups, who despite their massive gullibility are still embarrassed to have their dogma associated with a lie quite as flagrant as the Paluxy hoax.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Buzsaw, posted 02-19-2010 11:16 PM Buzsaw has not replied

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 59 of 91 (547556)
02-19-2010 11:40 PM


Just corrected myself. According to Youtube here: Race (classification of human beings)
African can be considered a race (classification of humans).

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 3091 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 60 of 91 (547558)
02-20-2010 12:01 AM


More verification, directly by officials of the State of Hawaii, including the GOVERNOR:
So Buzz, you are basically saying that various officials in State of Hawaii including the Director of the Department of Health and its Governor Linda Lingel (BTW a Republican) have committed perjury. If you think that the case than better get a lawyer.
Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection
"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan
"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Taz, posted 02-20-2010 1:46 AM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
 Message 67 by hooah212002, posted 02-20-2010 12:21 PM DevilsAdvocate has not replied
 Message 79 by Buzsaw, posted 02-20-2010 5:38 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

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