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Author Topic:   Proof of evolution!!!
Christian7
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 46 of 110 (264582)
11-30-2005 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by jar
11-30-2005 8:51 PM


Re: Lam and Crash acting children
I would like to see you achieve what the creator had by creating the simplest cell without design but by setting conditions. If you succeed you may call the creator incompetent in that, if you fail, then you have no such right.
Even if the creator is incompetent, human kind is hellishly inferior.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 8:51 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by nwr, posted 11-30-2005 9:02 PM Christian7 has replied
 Message 48 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 9:06 PM Christian7 has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 47 of 110 (264583)
11-30-2005 9:02 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Christian7
11-30-2005 8:57 PM


Re: Lam and Crash acting children
I would like to see you achieve what the creator had by creating the simplest cell without design but by setting conditions.
If jar could do that, it would provide evidence that a cell could arise by design.
Since you apparently believe that jar could not do that, then you have evidence against the design hypothesis.
Granted, the evidence at this stage is too weak to settle the issue. I'm just pointing out that your argument does not in any way support your claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 8:57 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Christian7, posted 12-01-2005 5:26 PM nwr has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 48 of 110 (264584)
11-30-2005 9:06 PM
Reply to: Message 46 by Christian7
11-30-2005 8:57 PM


Re: Lam and Crash acting children
Guido, let me take some time and try to answer you.
First, can I get a few basics out of the way.
Are you willing to agree that for our discussion, we can both accept that we are approaching the issue of Intellegent Design as Christians?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 46 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 8:57 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 9:40 PM jar has replied

  
ohnhai
Member (Idle past 5162 days)
Posts: 649
From: Melbourne, Australia
Joined: 11-17-2004


Message 49 of 110 (264586)
11-30-2005 9:20 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by crashfrog
11-29-2005 9:12 PM


Re: Lam and Crash acting children
...on a planet full of intelligent designers....
Be fair! Mr Alien did say he had seen half the human population destroyed, so the the plannet could only be half full of intelligent designers.
Mind you they must have all lost their hands causing Mr Alien not to make the connection between these humans, the computers and the artifact 'tools' that seem to be made for assemply/dis-assembly of the computers.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by crashfrog, posted 11-29-2005 9:12 PM crashfrog has not replied

  
AdminSchraf
Inactive Member


Message 50 of 110 (264587)
11-30-2005 9:21 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Christian7
11-30-2005 8:44 PM


quote:
You are a bafoon and are of no intellectual challenge to me. The only problem I have it putting my arguments into words so that your mind can understand them as I understand them.
Guidosoft, you are in violation of rule #10 of the forum rules:
Always treat other members with respect. Argue the position, not the person. Avoid abusive, harassing and invasive behavior. Avoid needling, hectoring and goading tactics.
Usually, in a well-conducted debate, speakers are either emotionally uncommitted or can preserve sufficient detachment to maintain a coolly academic approach.
-- Encylopedia Brittanica, on debate
You are on rather shaky ground. Do not tempt the moderators.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 8:44 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 9:42 PM AdminSchraf has not replied

  
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 51 of 110 (264589)
11-30-2005 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Modulous
11-29-2005 3:00 AM


Re: Evolved
Modulous writes:
Yes, computers have evolved, they have changed over time. You, mr alien, have made a valid inference.
No, computers have not evolved. The phrasing that computers have evolved is evidence of our anthropomorphic tendencies. Our ability to create ever more complex and capable computers has improved over the years. The computer itself has not evolved one bit. (pun not intended, but I like it anyway)
The alien reached the wrong conclusion and is more human that it admits.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Modulous, posted 11-29-2005 3:00 AM Modulous has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Modulous, posted 12-01-2005 8:03 AM bkelly has not replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 52 of 110 (264590)
11-30-2005 9:40 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by jar
11-30-2005 9:06 PM


Re: Lam and Crash acting children
Yes as christians.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 9:06 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 9:56 PM Christian7 has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 53 of 110 (264593)
11-30-2005 9:42 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by AdminSchraf
11-30-2005 9:21 PM


I'm sorry. Please forgive me.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by AdminSchraf, posted 11-30-2005 9:21 PM AdminSchraf has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by nator, posted 12-01-2005 11:16 AM Christian7 has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 54 of 110 (264597)
11-30-2005 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 52 by Christian7
11-30-2005 9:40 PM


looking at Intellegent Design
Okay.
Let's see how far we can get in agreement.
Would you say that an example of good design would be a system that was self-correcting?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 9:40 PM Christian7 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 9:58 PM jar has replied

  
Christian7
Member (Idle past 249 days)
Posts: 628
From: n/a
Joined: 01-19-2004


Message 55 of 110 (264600)
11-30-2005 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 54 by jar
11-30-2005 9:56 PM


Re: looking at Intellegent Design
Yes, and I think I know where you are going with this, but go on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 9:56 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by jar, posted 11-30-2005 10:10 PM Christian7 has not replied
 Message 88 by Phat, posted 12-02-2005 6:17 AM Christian7 has not replied

  
bkelly
Inactive Member


Message 56 of 110 (264601)
11-30-2005 10:00 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
11-30-2005 10:30 AM


HOW do you know?
Phat writes:
Some of us DO know the Designer!
How do you know the designer?
Before you reply, please allow me clarify how I am reading the word “know” and maybe preempt some misunderstandings.
Know: as in have substantiated information as to something being true.
Believe: as in hold the opinion that something is true.
Know: as used in the phrase I quoted: to be an acquaintance of.
By saying that you know (acquaintance) the designer, you imply that you know (have substantiated) that the designer does exist.
What makes you certain that the designer exists as opposed to just believe it? The bible is known to have errors and inconsistencies. The handed down word of our parents and of religious leaders is known to have errors and inconsistencies. By what logic are you certain that the designer exists?
Have you personally communicated with the designer? If yes, please specify what type of communications you have had:
1. designer to Phat
2. Phat to designer
3. two way communications
And how were those communications manifested?
Enquiring minds want to know!

Truth fears no question.
bkelly

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 11-30-2005 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 12-01-2005 3:38 AM bkelly has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 57 of 110 (264602)
11-30-2005 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Christian7
11-30-2005 9:58 PM


Re: looking at Intellegent Design
Okay so far.
Then could we compare two systems:
  • one that is internally self-correcting.
  • one that needs constant operator involvement for correction.
can you say that one is a better design?

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 9:58 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
macaroniandcheese 
Suspended Member (Idle past 3928 days)
Posts: 4258
Joined: 05-24-2004


Message 58 of 110 (264628)
11-30-2005 11:48 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Christian7
11-30-2005 8:44 PM


hon. really. just a gentle word of warning. you are how old? if you were genius enough to take on the world of evolution, you'd have been snatched up by some snazzy U long ago. but no. you're sitting at your computer at home arguing with people who've been arguing against your precise opinions for years.
where is your christian humility?
honestly. *dies*

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Christian7, posted 11-30-2005 8:44 PM Christian7 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 110 (264652)
12-01-2005 3:38 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by bkelly
11-30-2005 10:00 PM


Re: HOW do you know?
bkelly writes:
How do you know the designer?
Hello, bkelly! This IS a serious question with important ramifications, so I had to think about the definitions that you gave. It is quite a major declaration to say that one is known by another. For example, I know about bkelly.(you.) I see an incomplete profile. I can read your posts and draw certain inferences as to your character and beliefs---yet only in a rudimentary and sketchy detail. I can't yet say with any certainty that I have met you. I have at this point only read your words in a forum. That is how I used to feel about God. I could not even say for certainty that He was anything more than a legend taught by others in a society that I grew up in.
bkelly writes:
Before you reply, please allow me clarify how I am reading the word “know” and maybe preempt some misunderstandings.
Know: as in have substantiated information as to something being true.
Believe: as in hold the opinion that something is true.
Know: as used in the phrase I quoted: to be an acquaintance of.
By saying that you know (acquaintance) the designer, you imply that you know (have substantiated) that the designer does exist.
OK...we can go with your definitions, for the sake of my answer to your question. As I ponder my response to your question, I must be honest with myself and say that at this particular point in time, I know that I have met the designer and I once was quite sure that I knew Him...but...seeing how important the answer that I give is...(to me as well as some who are curious) I will have to get back to you on this answer as it will involve some prayer and meditation.
bkelly writes:
What makes you certain that the designer exists as opposed to just believe(ing) it?
I will declare that I am certain...by faith. Apart from that, I will say nothing more than I feel I am ready to say about the matter.
bkelly writes:
The bible is known to have errors and inconsistencies.
It depends what kinds of errors we are talking about. (That is another topic, anyway)
The handed down word of our parents and of religious leaders is known to have errors and inconsistencies.
Yes, but it depends on the character of the storyteller to a degree...we will not frame this issue with empirical proof as the yardstick..
By what logic are you certain that the designer exists?
Again, I will get back to this question...I am not up for it right at this moment.
bkelly writes:
Have you personally communicated with the designer? If yes, please specify what type of communications you have had:
1. designer to Phat
yes.
2. Phat to designer
yes, all the time.
3. two way communications
I believe that it has happened, but will pray before giving you my final answer on this one!
Stay tuned...it may take me a couple of weeks or more to get back to this, but I will keep it at the top of my list! I don't know why I feel able yet unwilling to give you a quick answer, bkelly! I certainly want to be honest with you!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by bkelly, posted 11-30-2005 10:00 PM bkelly has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Nighttrain, posted 12-01-2005 6:00 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 74 by bkelly, posted 12-01-2005 5:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
Nighttrain
Member (Idle past 3994 days)
Posts: 1512
From: brisbane,australia
Joined: 06-08-2004


Message 60 of 110 (264664)
12-01-2005 6:00 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
12-01-2005 3:38 AM


Re: HOW do you know?
While you`re communicating,PB, could you ask Him what happened to my prayer no.42 back in 1987? Ta.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 12-01-2005 3:38 AM Phat has not replied

  
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