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Author Topic:   How Dawkins made me a better person
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 22 of 71 (551291)
03-22-2010 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Den
03-22-2010 9:09 AM


Den writes:
I wish the other satire I wrote wasnt locked, because I was wondering what would happen if all the churches closed overnight and the world became universally Atheist/evolution believers, obviously this would destroy the churches ability to do their immense scope of charitable work?
And nobody but churches can do charitable work because? {ABE}: Also, "believing" in evolution has nothing to do with athesim. There are atheists who reject in evolution, you know.
Obviously there would be a transitional period of uncalculable suffering before other groups could take over the churches presently run charitable initatives.
Why? If everybody became atheist, but nothing else changed in their views, why would they not simply turn their churches charity into a non-christian charity? Since atheism has nothing to do with whether or not you want to help other people.
I wanted to know would the Athiest movement "Brights" take over and manage all of these responisbilities?
Have the people that are doing it now do it as well. Remember, nothing about these people changed, except their belief in gods. So they are just going to continue doing what they did, they just won;t believe in god anymore.
from soup kitchens to helping the homeless, orphaniges, providing funds for food and medical aid etc.
Indeed, because we all know atheists don't do any of this stuff, they'd much rather watch people suffer and laugh in their faces, right?
Edited by Huntard, : Added {ABE} bit

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 Message 21 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 9:09 AM Den has not replied

Replies to this message:
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 28 of 71 (551301)
03-22-2010 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by nwr
03-22-2010 9:28 AM


nwr writes:
I am not seeing anything locked.
And it's not. The thread The God Delusion, how it converted an evangalist is still open. It was suggested to get closed though, since these two threads are basically about the same thing.

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 35 of 71 (551331)
03-22-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


Den writes:
I think what I am saying is being taken out of context, Im looking at things from a practical sense. Im not religious, but I respect the work many religions do in order to help the needy.
What about the works atheists do in order to help the needy?
It is irrellevant who does more - secular charities vs Religion, when the fact is that no-one is trying to destroy secular charities, on the other hand there is an Athiest movement attacking Religion with the ambition to reduce its membership and influence, prefferably irradicating it altogether.
Curiously though, these "attacks" are never aimed towards the charity organizations, unless they have some stupid prereq for helping people, like requiring them to accept the lord first.
The fact is that religious groups donate billions of dollars a year with armies of unpaid volunteers dedicated to charitable causes, what happens if you turn that tap off?
Why would it be turned off if these people become atheists? Are you saying the only reason they help people is because they believe in a god? So they don't help people because they want to help people? That makes them pretty big assholes in my book.
even slowing the tap down will have a negative effect, so my point here is that should the Athiest movement which is trying to turn the tap off accept any responsibility for the consequences of this situation should it occur?
The "atheist movement" is not trying to turn off the tap. It is trying to make people think more rationally, or at least try to stop them from pushing their religious views on others.
I mean every person that the athiest movement convinces to leave religion, makes one less person donating their time and money towards the charitable initiatives of the church, = less for charity.
Bullshit. Atheists donate plenty of money to charities. It would perhaps not go to christian charities, but it would go to secular ones instead. Ergo, there's just as much money.
Lets assume that all the people who leave the church commit the same donations to secular charities instead(unlikely, but a percentage probably would),
Why is this unlikely?
what about the lost volunteers?
They can start work at the secular organisations.
ime is just as important, this you cant get back once these people have turned Athiest. Athiesm does not have intiatives mobilising people to donate their time to charitable causes the last time I checked.
Of course, atheism doesn't say anything at all about charity. Now, atheists however, do participate in charity, and quite often organize things for a charitable cause as well.
It really makes a case as to which party has moral superiority
Athesits, for they help people because they want to help people, not because they believe in a god.
but as an institution it is obvious as daylight as to who leads this race.
Since atheism isn't an institution, I don;t see anything to compare here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:37 AM Den has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 36 of 71 (551332)
03-22-2010 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Den
03-22-2010 11:57 AM


Den writes:
Check any statistics over 30% of the worlds charity money flows through the hands of Religious organisations
Meaning 70% doesn't. Now, who does more for charity, religious organizations, or non-religious organisations? So, wouldn;t all atheists converting to religion do much more harm, for all non-religious organisations would cease to exist, as per your own logic?

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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 45 of 71 (551350)
03-22-2010 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Den
03-22-2010 12:13 PM


Den writes:
Look kid, from your answers I know you have never run a business before, I run 3.
And you'd be wrong.
You cant just get billions of people to change habits so quick...
According to you they can. From one moment to another, you say, when people become atheists, they stop caring about charity. I in fact claim they won't change much at all, apart from their belief in gods.
...its not about morals...
Then why did you bring them up?
...its all about timing and logistics.
What timing and logistics, the infrastructure is already there.
If people stop going to church and putting money in the tin ...
The money used to run the church, you mean?
then some charity has got to spend time and money getting in front of these people to squeeze the money out of them, people dont just blindly throw their money around so easy.
So, all the atheists giving money to charity (which accounts for 70%, according to your numbers) are just blindly throwing their money about?
You actually think the person who goes to church and puts $5 bucks in the plate is gonna go out of their way to make the same donation to someone else?
I think the person going to church gives money to charity regardless of him giving money to help run the church.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 12:13 PM Den has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2316 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 63 of 71 (551567)
03-23-2010 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 62 by Den
03-23-2010 4:16 AM


Den writes:
People here claim 30% is not alot, thats around 1 in 3 people who are dependant on charity could possibly find themselves without help if you abolished all the church funded charities.
But why would this happen, instead of simply becoming non-religious charity organisations? Also, what if it was the other way around, 70% of the people, that's more then two thirds, would be without help if all those non-religious organisations would suddenly vanish when everybody became religious, as you assert. Yet I don't see you railing against the need of religious people to convert others to their religion.

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 Message 62 by Den, posted 03-23-2010 4:16 AM Den has not replied

  
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