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Author Topic:   How Dawkins made me a better person
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 299 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 46 of 71 (551367)
03-22-2010 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Den
03-22-2010 12:13 PM


Well, yes as a matter of fact...
You actually think the person who goes to church and puts $5 bucks in the plate is gonna go out of their way to make the same donation to someone else? someone else has gotta squeeze them.

We non-religious folk have this thing called the computer, where if I type "charity" in any search engine, we'll get about 6 million different what we call "websites" that we can select. From there, we do what we call "click" on a charity to find out how we donate this cash that's currently burning a hole in our wallet. We also have this instrument called the "telephone". When combined with what we commonly refer to in evolution-ese as "The Yellow Pages", it offers us yet another option.

Now I agree with you that this ridiculous number of steps is absolutely too much for some, but it's what we put up with when we don't have access to the "tin plate".

Have a good one.


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Son
Member (Idle past 304 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 47 of 71 (551368)
03-22-2010 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Den
03-22-2010 12:22 PM


You troll, make up strawmen and insults people you don't know a thing about, lie in about every messages and you still feel moraly superior? If you taught me anything, it's that God can actually make you immoral and completely shameless.
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Rahvin
Member (Idle past 146 days)
Posts: 3943
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 48 of 71 (551369)
03-22-2010 2:32 PM


Why are any of you feeding the troll?
He's not looking for discussion. He's just looking for attention. He wants to get a rise out of us. Stop letting him succeed.

Don't feed the trolls.


Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12881
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 49 of 71 (551385)
03-22-2010 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Rahvin
03-22-2010 2:32 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
Why?

I enjoy mocking people like this, so I'm going to mock him. Do you object?

It harms nothing except his pride.

Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.


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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 2812
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


(1)
Message 50 of 71 (551392)
03-22-2010 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Rahvin
03-22-2010 2:32 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
Rahvin writes:

He's not looking for discussion. He's just looking for attention. He wants to get a rise out of us. Stop letting him succeed.
Don't feed the trolls.

If, like me, you think that religion does more harm than good in the world, there's every reason to encourage people who choose to discredit it in public on the internet. In your religious days, wouldn't the enormous numbers of nutty and/or ignorant internet defenders of Faith have contributed to your doubts?

Feed away, and let religion shoot itself in the foot, I say.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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hooah212002
Member
Posts: 3179
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 51 of 71 (551397)
03-22-2010 4:23 PM
Reply to: Message 50 by bluegenes
03-22-2010 4:12 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
However, is it not a common occurrence that no matter what is said to them, no matter what logic, they will still feel as though they have won the "debate"? They will always run back to their peers (or any other like minded group) and turn it into "see, see, I did good. I showed them atheists". And they will all agree.

{I say "them" referring to creo-fundies because Den smacks of being one, albeit in an attempted disguise.}


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersófor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinóconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu


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Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 5279
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 52 of 71 (551404)
03-22-2010 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


I mean every person that the athiest movement convinces to leave religion, makes one less person donating their time and money towards the charitable initiatives of the church, = less for charity.

Proselytizing does not help anyone. If you spent as much money on mosquito netting as christians do on missions based literature we could save millions of children from malarial disease.

Lets assume that all the people who leave the church commit the same donations to secular charities instead(unlikely, but a percentage probably would), what about the lost volunteers?

Just imagine the number of Salvation Army volunteers we would lose if people stopped believing in Santa Claus.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12881
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 53 of 71 (551405)
03-22-2010 4:42 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by hooah212002
03-22-2010 4:23 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
owever, is it not a common occurrence that no matter what is said to them, no matter what logic, they will still feel as though they have won the "debate"?

Well, so they do.

It is quite probable than our new friend "Den" will feel that somehow, according to some gibberish hermeneutics that he just made up in his head, he has won.

But in fact he lost when he posted his OP. And anyone else reading this thread will know this, unimpeded by his pride, folly, stupidity, or other mental deficiencies.


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Hyroglyphx
Member (Idle past 644 days)
Posts: 5140
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006


(1)
Message 54 of 71 (551433)
03-22-2010 6:10 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


Sanctimony
Athiesm does not have intiatives mobilising people to donate their time to charitable causes the last time I checked.

That seems like a good thing to me. The purpose of charity is to give to others from your heart, not because you can get something out of it. Do you think people tithe in the collection plate at church because they're feeling so generous every single Sunday? No, it's because of peer pressure. They don't want their judgmental counterparts to start gossiping about how they allowed the collection plate to pass them.

It really makes a case as to which party has moral superiority, while in judging individuals there may not be an arguement, but as an institution it is obvious as daylight as to who leads this race.

Moral superiority because they may donate more to charity? How about, sanctimonious horseshit???

First, let's assume that Christians do give more to charity. For one thing, there are far more Christians than atheists on the earth, so you'd first have to figure out who gives more per capita, which really cannot be done if you are donating properly.

Secondly, are the moral superior Christians giving to charity because they want to or because they feel compelled to, either by the pressure exerted by other Christians or a fear that God will not bless them if they do not tithe their 10% or more to God?

Thirdly, if an atheist does give to charity, it isn't done with trumpets and all this drama. Let me know if this verse rings a bell:

"Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.

"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." --Matthew 6:1-4

Den, you sound extremely self-righteous and antagonistic. Your sense of moral superiority seems more like you masquerading as an angel when you're nothing but a false prophet.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
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bluegenes
Member (Idle past 61 days)
Posts: 2812
From: U.K.
Joined: 01-24-2007


Message 55 of 71 (551442)
03-22-2010 6:44 PM
Reply to: Message 51 by hooah212002
03-22-2010 4:23 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
hooah212002 writes:

However, is it not a common occurrence that no matter what is said to them, no matter what logic, they will still feel as though they have won the "debate"? They will always run back to their peers (or any other like minded group) and turn it into "see, see, I did good. I showed them atheists". And they will all agree.

Of course. I'm well aware of that. But I'm also aware that there are many intelligent young people who've been brought up with a religion which they've been taught is truth, and who will sooner or later question that truth. People like the author of this O.P. inadvertently stimulate that questioning.

Also, they give me the opportunity to point out that the countries with the highest levels of non-theism are relatively well functioning societies (Sweden, France, Japan etc.) and are net contributors to world aid, which is invariably received by highly religious societies.

I like pointing things like that out.


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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 16002
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 56 of 71 (551453)
03-22-2010 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by bluegenes
03-22-2010 6:44 PM


Re: Why are any of you feeding the troll?
Hi bluegenes,

Also, they give me the opportunity to point out that the countries with the highest levels of non-theism are relatively well functioning societies (Sweden, France, Japan etc.) and are net contributors to world aid, which is invariably received by highly religious societies.

And we don't even have to look at other countries, where there could be other factors influencing the statistics: we can look at the differences in statistics for things from violent crime rates to divorce to childhood pregnancies and compare them against the state and county proportions for religious and non-religious people. It comes as no surprise (to me) that "bible belt" communities are higher in the stats than liberal areas.

Massachusetts - even with gay marriage adding to the number of marriages - still has the lowest divorce rate in the country.

I just did a google on "red state morals" and one of the hits was

http://www.oregonherald.com/...2_red-state-moral-values.html

Overall, it's rather amusing eh?

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
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Admin
Director
Posts: 11448
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002


Message 57 of 71 (551454)
03-22-2010 7:40 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Theodoric
03-22-2010 12:18 PM


Hi Theodoric,

I don't yet know if you continue in this vein in this thread, I'm only up to Message 39, but please stop. Stick to the issues and the facts.

Everyone else, same message. Please extend Den every courtesy.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

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Pauline
Member (Idle past 210 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 58 of 71 (551491)
03-22-2010 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Den
03-21-2010 1:16 PM


Hi Den,

May I say just a few words? Please, please, please stop. Wars of words don't accomplish anything good.

1. Gotta treat everyone with respect. Atheist, Agnostic, or Christian, just the same..... Yeahh, being assertive may feel great, but being submissive fosters a friendly conversation. So, choose.

2. And please remember that.. if you're a believer, you're not a soloist...you represent the church, so please don't defame it.

Thanks.


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Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 12881
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 59 of 71 (551494)
03-22-2010 11:20 PM
Reply to: Message 58 by Pauline
03-22-2010 11:12 PM


I'm in agreement with Dr. Sing. Who is advising being nice to people.

I think I read about this in the Book of Revelation. It was somewhere between the rain of blood and the plague of giant locusts.

THE END OF THE WORLD IS AT HAND!!!


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Replies to this message:
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Pauline
Member (Idle past 210 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 60 of 71 (551496)
03-22-2010 11:24 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Dr Adequate
03-22-2010 11:20 PM


Dr A writes:

I think I read about this in the Book of Revelation. It was somewhere between the rain of blood and the plague of giant locusts.

THE END OF THE WORLD IS AT HAND!!!

Hi Dr A. Yes, I was terribly at fault for what I said in the Forum name change thread. [referring to repent or perish...] Rahvin understood me. I, I do regret it. I'm VERY sorry. I'll try to do better in the future.

You have a good one.


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