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Author Topic:   Open letter to conservatives
Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 4 of 122 (565825)
06-21-2010 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by xongsmith
03-24-2010 2:42 PM


Know what a NeoCon is?
I think you and the writer of this article have confused Conservatives, with Neoconservatives, as they are quite different. It also fails to recognize the simple fact that there are a good many conservatives in the Democratic Party. Making this article nothing more than missguided anti-republican drivel.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 12 of 122 (565841)
06-21-2010 11:52 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Straggler
06-21-2010 10:45 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
So which would you class yourself as?
Conservative, like Barry Goldwater, I lean a bit to the libertarian side. I am not sure if its possible but I would say right-wing-libertarian, or libertarian-conservative.
Which would you class GW Bush as? Palin? McCain?
NeoCon, NeoCon, RINO (republican in name only), McCain is tricky because he flip-flops so much, and I am not sure McCain knows what he is.
What about the tea party movement - Is that neo-con?
I don't think it started out that way, but I think as it got going many neocons "jumped on the bandwagon". I am not as involved as I used to be, Living in the Washington DC area has made me a little jaded, and I must say I do not know much about the tea party thing.
Which significant figures in the Republican party would you say are not neo-cons?
the Pauls. I realize ppl may not think Ron Paul is significant, but I voted for him, so he is significant to me.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 15 of 122 (565844)
06-21-2010 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Straggler
06-21-2010 11:57 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
I don't know Barry Goldwater. So in what sense are you libertarian and in what sense right wing? What sort of issues do you vote on primarily for example?
I think wikipedia does an okay job: Barry Goldwater - Wikipedia
how so libertarian?
I don't like to mind anyone's business but my own. a fan of states-rights, less centralized federal government. how is it any of my business what people in California or Alaksa want to do in thier states? why should I have a say in it? I could give a shit if you are gay, or muslim, or athiest, and want to marry each other in CA, because I don't nor ever will live there. You want to murder your foetus, go ahead its none of my business.
What issue do I vote on?
Taxes, less government intrusion, 2nd amendment rights, State Rights, civil liberties, legalizing marijuana,
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : i had to add some more garbage
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 19 of 122 (565853)
06-21-2010 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by onifre
06-21-2010 12:49 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
I do care what happens in my state because it affect me and my business. and I should have properly quoted that line to look like this "I don't like to mind nobody's business but my own"--Charlile Daniels (can i go back and change it?). I am not the best writer by any means, and I am sorry if it was confusing. the point I was trying to make is: that I do not care what happens in other states. I do care what happens in my state. Using a quote from a country music song was probably not the best idea now in hindsight. sorry for the confusion.
I think he's saying that what would effect him are policies in his own state (Virginia). Because he's subject to a policy enacted by his state, it therefore is his business because it effects him. But if he's not a California resident, the affairs of Californians don't effect, nor does he care.
sweet somebody got it.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 20 of 122 (565854)
06-21-2010 1:09 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taz
06-21-2010 12:19 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
Generalization and sweeping allegations? The author provided very specific examples and links to reputable news sources as evidence of these specific examples. Did you even read the article and the provided links?
You. Is not very specific. It implies the audience who reads its. To me it implied conservative in general because that is what the author states earlier in the article. Have YOU read the title? Or who it is directed to Dear Conservative Americans. I am a conservative American, yet hardly anything I read had anything to do with what I think or how I vote. It was way off.
How about this
a bad open letter writes:
Your party -- the GOP -- and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational.
sounds like a sweeping generalization to me.
Reputable news sources!?! Roflmfao! Since when do various BLOGS count as a reputable source? Or in which fantasy world is that the case?
Look I understand you are a believer and love the taste of this article’s kool-aid, but please do not act as if bob’s random political blog is a reputable source, and therefore evidence. Try and use the same scrutiny that you would in a scientific debate over the valid nature of sources. TPM? Thinkprogress? blog.american.com? Maybe these are reputable, maybe I am the oddball for not hearing of them.
I found Thinkprogress (where many of the links go), under Center for American progress (a liberal public policy and research advocacy organization). Thinkprogress is a liberal blog. I guess to some people that is a reputable source, unfortunately I am not one of those people.
This leads be to believe that as I look into the reputable sources and come to find more and more liberal blogs, as these source that I was correct in my original observation that this article is nothing more than leftist propaganda.
And that's exactly what the author of the article did. He was addressing individual conservatives, not the republican party as a whole.
Which individual is the Texas school board?
Once again from the article Your party -- the GOP — and the conservative end of the American political spectrum have become irresponsible and irrational. definitely addressing both conservatives, and the republican party as a whole, and not just individuals like you want us to believe.
It is always amusing to see the exact same person, who in a Science thread will demand evidence from a legitimate source, will 30 seconds later in a political thread, take Bob’s blog as a legitimate source for evidence in a political one. (here is the link from the article about teleprompter use, that goes to Bob’s blog incase you think I was making that up as a source The CPAC Teleprompter – The Bob Cesca Show | News and Politics Podcast and Blog)

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 Message 14 by Taz, posted 06-21-2010 12:19 PM Taz has replied

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 24 of 122 (565997)
06-22-2010 11:20 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by onifre
06-21-2010 4:23 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
But only because it could directly affect you, like say a new tax increase or some frivolous pending by you state reps. Fine, concern yourself all you want.
But a gay person getting married or a teenager that terminates a pregancy in California, Alaska or Virginia doesn't affect you in any way. So why concern yourself with it at all?
PS. I love Charlie Daniels
Look, I do not know how to spell this out anymore than this: I don’t care.
Do I argue against you guys about the same topics sometimes as a devil’s advocate, sure and I have on here in the past. I am pro choice (I don’t ever remember arguing against this). I am neutral on gay marriage, I don’t care either way (and my one vote is not going to change anything in this messed up commonwealth). I am not concerned with it.
I think this is classic Oni, getting hung up on a small part of something and then thinking he is disagreeing with some one only to find out 10 posts later that he is not.
PS. Most people talk trash because I sometimes listen to country music.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 27 of 122 (566003)
06-22-2010 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 25 by Taz
06-22-2010 11:30 AM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
keep drinking the kool-aid.
I already did point out specific issues, and you don't have shit.
How about this since you re definding the POS article. you find me a few sources on their that aren't blogs or liberal newpapapers, because I have not found any in the first 20 or so that I have looked at.
I am going to blanket and generalize, and guess that the whole article is bad journalism taking stuff from biased blogs (at least the 1st 6 paragaraphs that I have looked at are). so find 5 nuetral or non biased sources on there (or at the very least something from both sides of the argument). you know the repubtable ones you seem to think exist in the article's links.
"well it links to a blog that links to a blog that links to a newa source" is total BS have you ever heard of primary sources, or is this how you do your research?
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.
Edited by Artemis Entreri, : No reason given.

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 31 of 122 (566021)
06-22-2010 1:47 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Taq
06-22-2010 1:11 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
everything

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 Message 29 by Taq, posted 06-22-2010 1:11 PM Taq has replied

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 43 of 122 (566064)
06-22-2010 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Taq
06-22-2010 4:15 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
Progressives see government as a way of doing something positive that we can not do individually or through a for-profit system. This also seems to be anathema to conservative thought.
really? The last progressive elected to any major office was probably the Bull Moose himself, and that was 100 years ago. He was one of the best republicans ever. I think you have the progressives confused with someone else. Progressive Party (United States, 1912) - Wikipedia
The Patriot Act, Income tax, the New Deal, the Death Tax, the Soda tax, etc.
Edit to add: Social Security
If you want to get rid of taxation that would require a rewrite of the Constitution since it gives congress the power to tax.
That is what amendments are for. It would not require a rewrite of the whole constitution. Though A16 should be nullified in the process.
Edited by AdminModulous, : took out a space after the url tag which caused problems to the link

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 Message 42 by Taq, posted 06-22-2010 4:15 PM Taq has replied

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 44 of 122 (566065)
06-22-2010 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by onifre
06-22-2010 1:51 PM


Re: Know what a NeoCon is?
and I answered you.
I just asked you a question pertaining to your comment that you didn't care if gays got married in Cali or aborted a pregancy, but that you did care in Virginia because you lived there. You said that, not me. I was curious about it so I challenged it, because, this is a debate forum.
I think you are putting words into my mouth. or completly missunderstanding what I typed.
Should I say this is classic Artemis Entreri trying to backpedal and avoid confronting exactly what he said?
you are so full of shit. why don't you show me EXACTLY what i said? because its not what you think I said.
artemis entreri writes:
I don't like to mind anyone's business but my own. a fan of states-rights, less centralized federal government. how is it any of my business what people in California or Alaksa want to do in thier states? why should I have a say in it? I could give a shit if you are gay, or muslim, or athiest, and want to marry each other in CA, because I don't nor ever will live there. You want to murder your foetus, go ahead its none of my business.
then you asked some dumbass question about why would it matter in VA or CA, or AK. I was explaining states rights, those things you want to accuse me off are EXAMPLES of different things that go on in different states.
then you refer to me in 3rd person and start making shit up, after i explained to you and even appologized for any confusion, this is when i realized you are just being a trollish bitch.
trollish bitch writes:
He mentions that he doesn't care if a gay person wishes to marry in California (or anywhere else, other than Virginia), or if you'd like to abort a pregnancy in Cali or else where.
My question is, why care if they wanted to get married or abort a pregnancy in Virginia?
It doesn't affect him in any way, whether it be someone in California, Alaska or Virginia. These type of social policies don't affect anyone but the individual it concerns.
i never said i did care. in fact i said i didn't, and you keep making shit up and pretending that i do, or something. put the glue down. you are argueing against my examples. I never stated my stance on these issues in VA, and when I listed my issues these were not among them.
and then where the hell does this come from other than your mind
some crazy chick writes:
But a gay person getting married or a teenager that terminates a pregancy in California, Alaska or Virginia doesn't affect you in any way. So why concern yourself with it at all?
I am not concerning myself with it, you are trying to say that i am somehow concerning myself with it. you trying to say i said some shit that i never said.
Onifre are you male or female IRL? cause you debate like a bitch.

This message is a reply to:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 75 of 122 (566344)
06-24-2010 10:25 AM


mostly for CS, Qni, and DR.A
taq writes:
Hmf. Required health insurance in industry, new taxes, improvement of infrastructure, social welfare . . . all of the things that modern conservatives are against. Was Teddy Roosevelt for these things? If so, would you still consider him one of the best Republicans ever?
I figured you would take most of that out of context.
In 1912 things were much different that they are 98 years later. Health insurance in industry is due to the fact that there were none, or not much of anything. There was no standard work week, no child labor laws, anyone could be worked all day every day for pennies on the dollar with no thought of the welfare of the laborers. I find it very dishonest for you to try and use 1912 instances and apply them to issues today, well dishonest or ignorant, but I doubt you are ignorant.
Once again you compare this to modern conservatives, then ask if Teddy was a good republican. You are comparing apples and oranges in your own question. One does not have to a good modern conservative (something that Teddy was definitely not), to be a good republican (heck there are even conservative democrats). Conservatives do not equal Republicans, and vice versa. Besides Teddy was not Elected out of the Bull Moose party, when he was the 26th president, he was a republican. And BTW he was one of the best Republican Presidents, for sure.
Dr Adequate writes:
think you're being needlessly unpleasant, and heck, this is me talking.
Yeah looking back I was a bit off my rocker the other day. I decided to try and quit nicotine on Monday. I have been the most irritable guy all fricken week. Sry bout that, today is day 4 and while technically its just as bad as day 3, the fact that I have been nicotine free for 3+ days makes me think I can do a week.
Dr Adequate writes:
To clear up further confusion, let's just ask this. If your state had a referendum on making gay marriage legal, how would you vote?
Well I have already given plenty of evidence here that someone could probably guess how I would vote accurately. Unfortunately you people ask the same BS questions over and over again, even though I keep answering them, here goes again. In a referendum on Gay Marriage here in The Commonwealth of Virginia, I would more than likely abstain. I probably would not vote. I really don’t care either way (for the umteenth time), yay or nay. I’m content with the outcome.
Qnifre writes:
So your response is that, only things that happen in your state concern you because it can affect you - and I get that. But the examples you give of gay marriage and abortion (or as you called it, "mudering a fetus") wouldn't affect you even in your own state, so why the fuck bring those up as examples? And the way you use the examples, saying that you don't care what happens in Cali because you won't ever live there, indicates that you DO care if these things take place in VA because you do live there.
The repetition required around here to get your point across is tiring. See you are reading into what I said and looking past the plain facts of what I said into what did I mean by the way that I said what I said. This is something girls do, with led me to try and determine your gender. Look dude don’t read into it. There is no mystery. Killing infants, and homosexual marriage does not concern, no matter how I say it and no matter what you think I am trying to say. (I am trying to make this plain and simple so please don’t read into it). Next time when discussing something with you I will make sure to use issues that I do care about, like legalizing weed, and abolishing gun control, two issues that applies better to California, instead of abortion (all states) and Gay Marriage (something not legal in CA anyway). As I said previously, you get hung up on insignificant example that really don’t even apply to CA.
Onifre writes:
Now you want to back pedal and pretend that I've misunderstood something, fine, I don't care. You want to resort to name calling, cool, I don't give a fuck either. It would be better if you would man up and defend what you meant, or explain it better, but that would mean you'd have to break out of your typical passive aggressive way of debating, so I won't get my hopes up.
I do not know how to better explain it to you. It seems like other people understand me, which led me to think that you are just pretending not to get it.
I'm the guy who bangs your mom when your dad is out blowing men.
LOL. Where did I hear that before? Do you get your material like Carlos MenSTEALia?
Oh look, another internet tough guy. This looks like the punchline to the joke, "What did one nerd say to the other nerd?"
Hey I just call em like I see em. I call a bitch when I see one. Unless her man is more man than me, and I’m not ccw that day.
Catholic Scientist writes:
If your state had a referendum on making gay marriage legal, how would you vote?
If you really didn't care, then you wouldn't vote, right?
HOLY SHIT!
See I told you other people where out there and paying attention. This Guy understood, and reasonably with my previous posts as evidence accurately guessed how I would vote. I am almost stunned. I was beginning to think there were no thinkers on here.
Onifre writes:
Either way, according to AE he doesn't care. Apparently he's pro-choice (even though he used the phrase "murdering a fetus," and threw in atheist and muslims when saying he didn't care about gays getting married -- but only in California because it doesn't affect him.
Abortion is murder and morally wrong, but I would not vote to take away someone else’s choice. That is libertarianism, IMO. Being a Neo-Nazi is bad IMHO, but they have the same right to march peacefully down the street to demonstrate their beliefs just as, other crazy people, like the million mom march does, and me and the crazy NRA guys do as well. Also I cannot keep you from drawing your own crazy conclusions from what I say, no matter how many times I explain, so have fun I guess.
Catholic Scientist writes:
Well, obviously if its not a fetus then its not murdering a fetus. General blanket statements like that don't ever stand up to scrutiny. Don't mean I won't say it though!
If you are really Catholic, Life begins at conception. It’s a person immediately at any temporal point after conception, and is always murder. But I am not female, so It will never be my choice, and I choose to make sure that it is always the female’s choice (if I was ever to vote on it).

Replies to this message:
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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 85 of 122 (566427)
06-24-2010 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by onifre
06-24-2010 11:24 AM


Re: affecting me
well shit, can you get down to any more semantics than that. you sound like Oni now. you both know what I am saying, but wanna debate how I am saying which is fine by me, im just sick of saying the same shit over and over again.
fuck abortion is homocide to me. like you had no clue what I meant.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by onifre, posted 06-24-2010 11:24 AM onifre has replied

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Artemis Entreri 
Suspended Member (Idle past 4219 days)
Posts: 1194
From: Northern Virginia
Joined: 07-08-2008


Message 87 of 122 (566434)
06-24-2010 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by onifre
06-24-2010 11:10 AM


Re: mostly for CS, Qni, and DR.A
A pothead who is concerned with guns and abolishing gun control? ...only in Virginia I guess. That's awesome, what a great combination. If there's two things that are fun to do in Virginia is smoke weed and shoot shit without federal regulations. Actually there is a third thing to do in Virginia that's fun as hell
I am no longer a pothead, thank you. That was years ago. But would like to legally do it one day in the future.
What Hyro explained I understood, and CS is arguing for the fact that it does effect you. So neither of them "got" anything that I don't get.
So you are just being a bitch about it, and they are not. I called it right the 1st time, thanks for at least admitting that you like to be mean to me.
It's cute to watch non-comics refer to Carlos as a joke theif because you watched one youtube video and now you think you're "in the know." MenSTEALia...wow, did Rogan tell you to say that? Hackkkkkk
Non-comics!?!, what is required to be a comic? Is there a degree or school required for it, or are comics just people who refer to themselves as comics? Anyone can or cannot be a comic. Don’t be mad I called you out on some shit I have heard before from other people. Its okay that your material is not unique, nor created by yourself. Don't worry, it's ok, you can still be unoriginal and funny at the same time. BTW I don’t think I am in the know about a bunch of losers like comics. (that is probably you).
Holy shittttt. You would not vote to take away someone's right to murder? Dude, you're the last person that should be smoking weed and playing with firearms! Please. Murder is illegal, no one has the right to do it.
But abortion is not murder, that's why it's not about the right to "murder."
No, that's insanity. Libertarianism says nothing about the freedom to comit murder. You've hijacked the word, like most so-called libertarians these days, to mean something totally different from what it originally stood for.
Yes, but no one is given the right to comit murder.
If you know what I meant then all of this is strawman. If you didn’t know what I meant then okay. I meant homicide. I looked murder up for you and CS the semantics assholes. I was wrong to say murder, but you are still taking what I said out of context, which is fine, because I see your game, I see what you have and don’t have to offer.

This message is a reply to:
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