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Author Topic:   Is the quality of evangelism declining?
mick
Member (Idle past 4986 days)
Posts: 913
Joined: 02-17-2005


Message 1 of 34 (553596)
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


I was brought up as a Jehovah's Witness and I used to go door to door evangelizing. We used to have excellent opening lines like "Hello. Would you like to live forever in a paradise on Earth?" and "Good morning. Do you know why evil people seem to get all the good things out of worldly life?" We would be greeted by horrified incomprehension that was a direct route into getting big leather-look book out to find out the answers.
I have noticed a distinct decline in the quality of evangelism of late. There is a lady at my local tube station who stands there with a stack of Watchtowers and will hand them out only if you ask nicely but with otherwise retain a sullen silence. I was recently visited by a pair of what looked like fifteen year old Mormons, who seemed incredibly awkward, and whose oopening gambit was "Er... I guess you can tell by looking at us... er... we're missionaries." They were virtually apologetic. They continued "Is there anything... er... we can do for you?" I honestly was tempted to have them sweep the porch. I had a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses come to my door who asked how I was doing. I explained that I was in the middle of fixing up a broken PC. They offered advice that I needed to get a new CPU and use proper cooling sealant next time, gave me a phone number for a shop, and left without mentioning God whatsoever.
I was just wondering if this is a Vancouver phenomenon, or if the quality of evangelism in general is in total meltdown? I prefer a fire and brimstone type, and find this quite unnerving. It's like being visited by a friend of a friend, who leaves politely when you point out that your spare bed is out of service.

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4295
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004


Message 2 of 34 (553653)
04-04-2010 3:10 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


Education is increasing
mick writes:
Is the quality of evangelism declining?
I don't think the quality of evangelism is declining, I think the quality of education of the everyday person is increasing.
The whole "fire and brimstone type" of fear-based recruitment only works on the unprepared. Most people now have access to the internet, and a wealth of knowledge that can "get them ready" for this sort of rude interruption to their lives. With the element of surprise removed, the fire and brimstone techniques are more laughable and entertaining than they are at being effective methods of conversion.
It is an ever-growing, widely understood theme that the "big leather-look book" doesn't really have any unique answers within it. Some sure think it does, but lots of people think they've found "special" answers in a variety of places. But reality has shown that the Bible isn't any more special than anyone elses personal choice for where to find answers for their tough questions.
People can see through the claims now. When you say "the answers are here", it doesn't mean anything unless you can actually show that the answers really are there. When that hasn't happened... and, really, the Bible has had at least 1000 years to show that it has anything unique... but when that has failed, over and over again... well, people tend to smarten up and lose interest.
With the advent of so much change and new technological devices and such... people are getting used to being able to learn if and how things really work. They're also getting used to the idea that people are different and lots of people like lots of different subjective things. That's why iPods come in a bazillion colours.
The Bible does have answers, just not any dependable, unique, "for everyone" answers. But, that's not really "a bad thing" since such a thing is kind of impossible. The only way there could be a single source of reference to answer subjective questions for everyone would be if everyone was exactly the same. But, people are different, so the answers they're searching for are going to be different as well.
The only way all people can find fullfillment where these subjective questions are concerned... is to go and search and look for themselves. Everywhere. Some likely will find their answers in the Bible. But certainly not all.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 34 (553823)
04-05-2010 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


Can't say
I was just wondering if this is a Vancouver phenomenon, or if the quality of evangelism in general is in total meltdown? I prefer a fire and brimstone type, and find this quite unnerving. It's like being visited by a friend of a friend, who leaves politely when you point out that your spare bed is out of service.
I've only experienced this door to door evangelism once in my life, and they didn't knock, they just left a program on my door for a church. I see these Mormons prowling on my block every now and again and wait for them to bother me so I can light their ass up, because all they are is glorified telemarketers. But for whatever reason they seem to never come to my home.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 4 of 34 (553830)
04-05-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
04-05-2010 9:46 AM


Re: Can't say
As soon as I figure out who they are I politely decline. If the continue I give them 10 secs to leave my property. If they continue even then I start calling 911. It is amazing how quickly you get a reputation so none of the religious nutjobs stop by. I have had to call 911 twice and each time a deputy came out and was very pleasant with me and talked with the nutjobs. Each time they got in their car and left the area.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 5 of 34 (553849)
04-05-2010 11:25 AM


It's Them Horns
After their opening as they waited to see my reaction I calmly went into my thing:
Do you know about atheism? It really is not satan worship. In fact we reject all of your gods including your satan. We don't eat babies or sacrifice christians and we really don't try to have sex with everyone who shows up on our doorstep.
As they persisted I did not address or react to any of their points. I calmly evangelized right back about the freedom of thought atheism provides, what a waste of intellect it must be to spend ones life in servitude to someone else's fantasy and they should really look into it with serious intent to convert.
I have only had this experience twice. I ignored everything they said, didn't try to argue, just seriously evangelized for atheism. I guess the horns that sprouted from my head were too much for them as both conversations were quite short.
Stile has it correct. The fire and brimstone approach has lost its effectiveness. It has become not just laughable but counterproductive.

  
rueh
Member (Idle past 3661 days)
Posts: 382
From: universal city tx
Joined: 03-03-2008


Message 6 of 34 (553855)
04-05-2010 11:57 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


A slightly different approach to missionaries
Whenever I see evangelists or door to door solicitors on my porch. I answer the door stark naked. I don't think it matters how prepared they are to deliver their speach or it's quality, when they are confronted with a naked man asking them if they would like to come in for coffee.

'Qui non intelligit, aut taceat, aut discat'
The mind is like a parachute. It only works when it is open.-FZ
The industrial revolution, flipped a bitch on evolution.-NOFX

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Coyote
Member (Idle past 2106 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 7 of 34 (553857)
04-05-2010 12:04 PM


Cookies
A while back we lived in a country house with a nice white picket fence around it.
Our dog was trained not to let anyone who was hesitant into the yard. She got cookies for that.
Anyone who belonged there, delivery folks or even strangers and casual visitors just walked right in with no problem. But evangelists seemed always to hesitate just a bit at the gate. That told the dog it was time to stand guard there, smile at them, and earn some cookies.
For about ten years while we had that dog no one preacher made it into the yard!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

  
slevesque
Member (Idle past 4640 days)
Posts: 1456
Joined: 05-14-2009


Message 8 of 34 (553873)
04-05-2010 1:10 PM


The only time I answered the door to Jehovah's witness, there were two ladies standing there and the first one immediatly said: ''Did you know that birds, during the winter, need guidance to find their way ?''.
First thought that came to mind was that they were part of some ornithologist club.
Turned out she followed that statement with ''Don't you think humans too would need guidance too?''.
Now it was early in the morning, and my brain was working a bit backwards. Why owuld I need guidance during winter ? Why does she already have a feet into the house ?
But then the connections started to click. The watchtower magazin, the bizarre introduction. THey were Jehovah's witness on the brink of entering my house ! So I quickly announced I was an evangelical christian, that I already knew God etc. etc. and with some resistance the finally left.
SO that was all. I found it to be an interesting experience.

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4032
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 9.2


Message 9 of 34 (553880)
04-05-2010 1:39 PM


I've had a few evangelism attempts.
The first was when I was in 8th grade. We went on a school trip to Boston, MA (fun trip, btw), and at one point we were approached by a Buddhist selling books. My friends and I were all interested in learning about other religions and mythologies, so we bought it. Then an older gentleman with an uncomfortably intense expression came up to us, shoved some typically offensive Chick tracts into our hands, and said "You boys know you're wasting your time with that garbage, right?"
He didn't exactly have the intended effect. We forgot all about the book, and instead our evening was spent talking about what a jackass that guy was.
As an adult, I generally like to debate with the evangelists when I have time. I remember once, though, one of them brought his young son. I really didn't want to get into a real debate in front of the guy's kid, so I just said "No thanks, I'm an Atheist, I don;t believe in God."
The guy's reaction was priceless. His eyes widened, and he stammered in shock, "You...you don't believe in God? Oh...Okay then..."
You could tell he was used to evangelizing people who were already Christians to his particular flavor (I don't think he was Mormon, may have been a JW, but there were a few other fundamentalist churches in the area as well). I just found his complete and utter shock that someone wouldn't believe in God at all to be rather amusing, like it was something he had just never considered.

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6408
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 10 of 34 (553882)
04-05-2010 2:01 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


I think it is difficult to say that the quality of evangelism has declined.
Evangelism has changed. But that may well be a matter of adapting to changes in society and culture.
When I was young, an evangelist at the door was a somewhat welcome diversion that would help to fill in part of an otherwise boring day. These days, an evangelist at the door is an annoying distraction that interrupts whatever else I am doing.
My current practice, if visited by one of them, is to politely say that I keep my religious views to myself and that I hope they will decide to do the same. They usually thank me for my time, and immediately leave.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 11 of 34 (553883)
04-05-2010 2:04 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by mick
04-04-2010 3:07 AM


I met a really nice Jehovah's Witness, became friends with him, and let him know that he could drop in any time.
Yeah ... it doesn't sound like me, does it? But I have a sweet side.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 12 of 34 (553897)
04-05-2010 3:52 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by rueh
04-05-2010 11:57 AM


Re: A slightly different approach to missionaries
Reminds me of the story told a few decades ago by a local free-thought author -- well, he's up in the next county, L.A. -- , Gordon Stein? His neighborhood was plagued by a near-constant stream of door-to-door evangelists, all of whom he would try to deal with with common courtesy. One day his shower was interrupted by the frantically urgent ringing of his doorbell. Thinking that there was some kind of emergency, he rushed to the door dripping wet having only time to quickly wrap a towel about himself. It was no emergency, but rather yet another door-to-door evangelist. Infuriated, he lay into that idiot with the scathing scolding that he so richly deserved. Then from that day forth, no evangelist ever bothered him again, though he had no idea why that was . . .
. . . until one day he noticed a red thumbtack stuck into the trim next to his front door. It was a "hobo sign" used to warn all evangelists who followed that this house was hostile to them. I'm sure that they would use thumbtacks of other colors to convey different messages. When I was a paperboy, I had seen a number of houses with thumbtacks stuck in the door trim, but had always just assumed that they were for pinning notes to the owner or something.
I have only had a few encounters myself. In the first one, the evangelists tried the opening line of "Have you read the Bible?", apparently to then interject their own interpretation of a particular verse. I answered, "Yes I have, which is why I'm an atheist." End of discussion right there; they just left.
Edited by dwise1, : hazarding guess at author's name

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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 13 of 34 (553899)
04-05-2010 4:10 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by dwise1
04-05-2010 3:52 PM


I answered, "Yes I have, which is why I'm an atheist." End of discussion right there; they just left.
This one has worked the same for me:
quote:
uhh... I'm Catholic.
They just said: "Oh."

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


Message 14 of 34 (553900)
04-05-2010 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Stile
04-04-2010 3:10 PM


Re: Education is increasing
I don't think the quality of evangelism is declining, I think the quality of education of the everyday person is increasing.
The whole "fire and brimstone type" of fear-based recruitment only works on the unprepared.
For example, I've been hit on at least twice with "Pascal's Wager" dressed up as a car insurance analogy: you buy car insurance just in case of an accident, so why not buy "after-life insurance" (my own term for what they were selling) just in case God does exist? Already familiar with the Wager, I immediately recognized it and was able to immediately deliver a devastating impromptu response also couched in car insurance terms (from my old "After-Life Insurance" web page):
quote:
So I told my after-life insurance salesman that his after-life insurance was a rotten deal (unfortunately, I didn't think of that name for it until the next day, but that poor guy was already hurting too much). We had to pay an exorbinant price for a policy that would only pay in the most restricted and oddest of circumstances. By the car insurance analogy, it would only pay if you were hit by a green Edsel -- on the northbound side of the Santa Ana Freeway -- while it was exceeding the speed limit -- backing up -- at night -- with its lights off -- being driven by a one-armed Lithuanian midget.
He had been so self-assured that his argument was flawless and unassailable. He couldn't understand what had just happened. I think he still doesn't know what had hit him.
Which goes to show that it does pay to read the classics.
Which perhaps points us to a better reason for the decline in the quality of evangelism: they're either not getting trained or their training is inadequate. The "Jesus Freak" movement of c. 1970 brought us a plague of street evangelizers. Rather than having studied the Bible for most of their lives, these were mainly new converts who didn't know that much yet. So their organizers (or the individual being moved by the Spirit going out to proselytize on his own) would prepare scripts for them to use, or adopt scripts gleaned from Chick Pubs (we've all read how those play out) and from televangelists' presentations, etc. As long as the proselytizer's mark was relatively ignorant, the proselytizer could keep their encounter on the script, right up to where the mark turns full victim and says the Sinner's Prayer and converts. But if the mark knew anything, then he'd go off-script and the proselytizer would be lost.
And part of why it's become so much easier for the intended victims to thwart the proselytizer is because so many of the arguments he's being given to use, "as ammo" as they will describe it, are nothing more than crap; eg, "creation science" claims. As one former creationist, Scott Rauch, described it (No webpage found at provided URL: http://home.entouch.net/dmd/whocares.htm):
quote:
"I still hold some anger because I believe the evangelical Christian community did not properly prepare me for the creation/evolution debate. They gave me a gun loaded with blanks, and sent me out. I was creamed."

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 15 of 34 (553901)
04-05-2010 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by New Cat's Eye
04-05-2010 4:10 PM


This one has worked the same for me:
quote:
uhh... I'm Catholic.
Who are they looking for?

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