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Author Topic:   What is the I in ID?
lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 136 of 165 (129310)
08-01-2004 11:49 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by nator
08-01-2004 10:56 AM


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If thought is knowledge than all we know is the map.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
But thought isn't just knowledge.
Thought is perception and conception, too.
We construct thought in the brain, we don't "record and replay."
schraf,
I'm just beginning to work my way into this. Of course the brain is not a simple recording device. But the thought that is constructed in the brain is knowledge. Writing is more like a recording of "thoughts" from the brain.
I am working partly with the philosophical problem of qualia.
We've got a physical/chemical model of the universe including humans.
For example photons of a certain freguency are absorded by a pigment in a retinal cell. The cell fires and there is a cascade of neural activity maybe, if say the photons are from the Red signal in a traffic light, leading to foot on brake. But back to the brain receiving information from the retina. We experience redness. Is that redness out there or in the brain or?
Scientists study light. Now we have knowledge of our theory. But what is out there? Theory has the atoms being mostly empty. But we don't walk through walls. The walls we know are constructs. Can we ever know what a wall really is? Can we know what an atom really is?
Would a computer hooked up to some sort of light sensor experience anything like our experience of "redness"? Would a computer referencing memory locations that store data on it current state experience anything like our "self awareness"?
I think this is a very central and difficult problem. I just don't understand how the analogy of a self referencing computer explains how our brains, or existing organism functions in regards to consciousness. It may help understand certain neural functions, but not the consciousness that I am experiencing now as I sit and write this.
What say you?
peace,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by nator, posted 08-01-2004 10:56 AM nator has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 137 of 165 (129313)
08-01-2004 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by dandon83
07-29-2004 5:27 AM


Re:
quote:
i said it is true and i prooved that no one can write like it.
you claim that it is not , i asked you to write like 1/10 of it,but you did not answer .
you claimed and asked me to prove that your claiming is wrong.
what is your logic!!!!
dandon,
You haven't grasped logic. Can you write like Charles Darwin? or Mark Twain? I can't. I know of no one who has. Even if that is true and how can we know that someone somewhere won't be able to write like Darwin, Twain, or Mohammed. How would that fact establish a source beyond human? It would only establish that it's impossible for one human to completely imitate the writing of another human.
You have been conditioned by your experiences in your religion to emotional believe it. Because you emotionally believe it you want it to be factually and logical true. You want your shared cultural social fantasy of how the world is to be accepted as fact. This is true of all revealed religions.
These same illogical and absurd emotional rhetorical claims are made for the Torah, the New Testament, The Book of Mormon, and trance channeling. Some partisan claim that demons are responsible for the books of other religions. This is all fantasy and nonsense. It goes on because of emotional conditioning stemming from a time when people had less knowledge of the universe and of themselves.
Logically, Mohammed's brain made the Koran up, just like human brains made all the revealed books up. Logic doesn't mean illogical arguments to persuade emotional people to your point of view. It's much more precise than that.
But continue your studies of science and take some courses in logic.
peace,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by dandon83, posted 07-29-2004 5:27 AM dandon83 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by dandon83, posted 08-02-2004 6:31 AM lfen has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 138 of 165 (129320)
08-01-2004 12:20 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by johnfolton
06-22-2004 12:20 AM


quote:
however once your offspring develop a genetic disease cause you ate shrimp, clams, lobster, and all those other unclean creatures in exotic foods, don't blame God, cause he said these creatures are unclean to eat,
whatever,
How does eating shrimp or any other "unclean" animal create a genetic disease? What is the specific mechanism? I was not aware that foods could mutate the DNA of sperm and ova.
God said they were unclean? I've no idea where the idea came from or who wrote it down. It's in the bible so it was most likely a priest who came up with it. Seafood can spoil rapidly and particularly in this day and age water pollution and "red tides" can result in dangerous toxin levels in seafood. But then so can E.Colli in beef.
peace,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by johnfolton, posted 06-22-2004 12:20 AM johnfolton has not replied

  
lfen
Member (Idle past 4699 days)
Posts: 2189
From: Oregon
Joined: 06-24-2004


Message 139 of 165 (129325)
08-01-2004 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by pink sasquatch
06-21-2004 3:28 PM


quote:
improperly designed for our upright posture.
I'll ask the question again: Why would God design our spines to guarantee back problems
sas,
We could maybe start a new thread on this? Until then I'll pass two authors on to you.
John Sarno M.D, The MindBody Prescription
Moshe Feldenkrais Awareness through Movement
And one brief personal testimonial. I've have had agonizing episodes of back spasm, tight back etc. At 57 my alignment and body sense is more comfortable than I can recall ever experiencing. The idea is that we learn poor body patterns in this society and we respond to stress in ways that physically pain us. Sarno shows studies, and there are several, that pain and strutural wear are independent. Yes there are painful conditions of the back but they are not nearly as common as stress and self usuage pain. If you want to discuss this start a new thread and I'll join you.
I think evolution did an over all awesome job of "intelligently" evolving the human body.
peace,
lfen

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by pink sasquatch, posted 06-21-2004 3:28 PM pink sasquatch has not replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 140 of 165 (129491)
08-02-2004 6:25 AM
Reply to: Message 135 by nator
08-01-2004 11:06 AM


chlorofyll
okey thank you ,i will give you better subject about clorofyll just give me some time to collect my information.if you please!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by nator, posted 08-01-2004 11:06 AM nator has not replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 141 of 165 (129496)
08-02-2004 6:31 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by lfen
08-01-2004 12:02 PM


Re:
okey i will do, thank you for your advice

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by lfen, posted 08-01-2004 12:02 PM lfen has not replied

  
pink sasquatch
Member (Idle past 6045 days)
Posts: 1567
Joined: 06-10-2004


Message 142 of 165 (129831)
08-02-2004 3:41 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by dandon83
08-01-2004 5:31 AM


Re: faulty logic
when i asked charles knight to write 1/10 of the quran that was because he claimed that quran is man-wrote , not to prove if it is correct!
Okay, then:
I assert that The Origin of Specieswas written by God, using Darwin as a messenger, in order to reveal to humankind the nature of God's creation.
In order to prove to me that The Origin of Speciesis simply a work of man, please write "like 1/10 of it".
If you cannot, then God wrote The Origin of Species, by your (still) faulty logic...

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by dandon83, posted 08-01-2004 5:31 AM dandon83 has not replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 143 of 165 (129838)
08-02-2004 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by dandon83
07-28-2004 4:00 AM


Re: I got it!!
dandon83
that is why Quran is from God
Then why is the opening of the qu'ran a prayer to Allah if He is its author? That makes no sense.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by dandon83, posted 07-28-2004 4:00 AM dandon83 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by dandon83, posted 08-03-2004 5:14 AM sidelined has replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 144 of 165 (129964)
08-03-2004 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by sidelined
08-02-2004 4:16 PM


Re: I got it!!
he teaches you how to pray.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by sidelined, posted 08-02-2004 4:16 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by sidelined, posted 08-03-2004 9:17 PM dandon83 has replied

  
sidelined
Member (Idle past 5930 days)
Posts: 3435
From: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Joined: 08-30-2003


Message 145 of 165 (130156)
08-03-2004 9:17 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by dandon83
08-03-2004 5:14 AM


Re: I got it!!
dandon83
1 In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful.
2 Praise be to Allah, Lord of the Worlds,
3 The Beneficent, the Merciful.
4 Master of the Day of Judgment,
5 Thee (alone) we worship; Thee (alone) we ask for help.
6 Show us the straight path,
7 The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray.
Why would he avoid telling us in the first person? No that is less likely than it being the work of men writing to an audience.You will have to do better than that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by dandon83, posted 08-03-2004 5:14 AM dandon83 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 6:49 AM sidelined has replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 146 of 165 (130251)
08-04-2004 6:49 AM
Reply to: Message 145 by sidelined
08-03-2004 9:17 PM


BILLOWS TOPPED BY BILLOWS!
Billows topped by billows. This is a fact revealed by Quran before fourteen centuries, however, now modern science has confirmed it. Modern science has reached to this fact after establishing hundreds of sea stations by pictures taken by satellites. This fact was said by professor Rashryder a German sea scientist. Before hearing Quran he used to say that the more science advances the more religion retreats. But after hearing this Aaya from Quran he stated that it could not be the product of human intellect. He means that it is a divine word. Professor Dorjaro, the teacher of sea Geology confirmed what Quran said before fourteen centuries. First we have to look at what Quran has said. It says Or (the unbelievers state) is like the depths of darkness in a vast deep ocean, over whelmed with billow Topped by billow, Topped by (dark) clouds: Depth of darkness, one above another: of a man stretches out his hand he can hardly see it! For any to whom Allah giveth not light. There is no light [24:40]. Professor Dorjaro says that in the past man was not capable of diving into the depth of a sea for more than twenty meters without using necessary equipments. But now we can dive into the depth of deep seas and oceans with the help of modern equipments, however, when we go deep into the oceans and deep seas we find the depth very dark. Just at the depth of two hundred meters it is very dark. The modern discoveries of the depth of deep seas gave us real reflection of the picture given in the holy Quran deep ocean Depth of darkness, one above another. It is well known that the spectrum has seven different colors. We may mention for example the red, the yellow, the blue, the green, the orange etc As we go to the depth of a sea we will find that these colors start disappearance of each color will give more darkness. The first disappear is the red, then the orange, then the yellow and the last color to disappear is the blue color which disappear at the depth of about two hundred meters. As each color disappears, as darkness becomes denser till we reach to a state of an over whelming darkness. Regard the Quranic saying billow topped by billows it is scientifically evident that there is a demarcation line, a partition, a division between the deep part of the sea and its upper part. This demarcation line of dividing part is full of waves. These waves break and neutralize the light of the sun and consequently it fails to go to the depth of the sea due to wares. This is a scientific discovery made now in the modern age, but Quran has explained it in detail before fourteen centuries. Professor Dorjaro himself stated that what Quran has explained can not be a human knowledge of that time. He means that it is divine revelation from Allah to the Prophet Mohammed PBUH. Source: Material Evidence for the Existence of Allah. By: Shaikh Mohamed Mutanabi Elsharaowi.
you may see more at the website:http://www.geocities.com/rr_eem/Ala3gaz-Al3alme.htm
This message has been edited by dandon83, 08-04-2004 05:51 AM
This message has been edited by dandon83, 08-04-2004 05:53 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by sidelined, posted 08-03-2004 9:17 PM sidelined has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by CK, posted 08-04-2004 7:03 AM dandon83 has replied
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CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 147 of 165 (130252)
08-04-2004 7:03 AM
Reply to: Message 146 by dandon83
08-04-2004 6:49 AM


Re: BILLOWS TOPPED BY BILLOWS!
I'm sorry that make zero sense at all to me. Is it a translation?
Anyone care to have a stab at what that is say?
It appears to be saying that the deeper you go in the ocean, the darker it gets! - Thanks for bring that to our attention - clearly only God could provide such knowledge!
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-04-2004 06:06 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 6:49 AM dandon83 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 7:17 AM CK has replied
 Message 152 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 7:20 AM CK has replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 148 of 165 (130253)
08-04-2004 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by pink sasquatch
07-29-2004 3:27 PM


Matter and the mate of matter
We all know that Allah has created the human and made him into male and female. Allah says in the holy Quran: (mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in a sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you, and God has full knowledge and is well aquainted (with all things).
So that the human could have a companion and the acquaintance and strong good ties would spread among his creatures. This system of creation was not among human only, but was extended also to include the kingdom of animals: Allah says (That he did create in pairs — male and female, from a seed when lodged (in its place)). And Allah says: (WE said Embark therein, of each kind two, male and female) and so was the case with the kingdom of plant. Allah says: (and fruit of every kind, he made in pairs, two and two). This shows that humans and most kinds of animals and plants were created in male and female. This is what the Quran tells us and Biology teacher.
In addition to this, we find in the following verse more generalizations where Allah Says; (And of everything we have created pairs, that ye may receive instruction). The word thing we together with the people who preceded us have understood it to be inclusive to contain humans, plants and animals. Since the Quran has included them all in this verse and told us that all creatures were made up of males and females. This could be so, but we realize that the verse includes more these groups; it extends to include the non — living creatures. Does this mean that the non — living creatures are classified into males and females?
To answer this question, lets wonder a little in the physics of tiny bodies. In the first half of the twentieth century, An English physicians, called Dirak, was doing his research on electronic equations (We know that electrons are tiny bodies which has negative charge that go around the nucleus. Dirak discovered that equations had two solutions, not only one. Any one who deals with the equations of the second degree easily understands this; because the equation of the second degree include an unknown square quantity; and that the square quantity is always positive. This means that the multiplication of x2 always gives the same result. This means that the square root also gives the same root. For example, the square root of 4 is either +2 or —2; the square of any will result in 4(the same result). Dirak’s equation were more complicated but it’s the same idea.
He got two groups of equations: one for the negative charge electrons and the second for an unknown positive charge bodies. He made some unsuccessful attempts to explain the mystery of this unknown body since he had strong believe in its presence, However, the physicians ignored his idea of the presence of a positive charge body which is equivalent to the electrons, as does the engineer who ignores the solutions of a second degree equations that give solutions of negative lengths and sizes.
Some years after Dirak’s theoretical works, in the beginnings of the thirtieth, the effects of this unknown body while studying the effect of the magnetic field on the unknown body in an apparatus called the cloud chambre. It was discovered that the size of that body is equal to the size of the electron and that it has a positive charge which is equal to the charge of the electron. Thus, this body was called the (positron)) i.e. (the anti electron). Hence, they started looking for mates of other bodies, since the presence of an electron mate means the presence of mates for other bodies. Actually, the discovery of such mates began one by one and they were classified into groups. We are not interested in their details but on the final result which is the presence of a mate for every body.
The discovery of the presence of a mate for the matter indicates to us the possibility of the presence of another world which is equivalent to our materialistic world, and that is made up of mates of bodies i.e. mater of matter. Where is this world that is made up of mates of matter? This is the question that no one has an answer for. The Earth is bassically made of matter (cosmic) and not of a mater of matter. As for the mate of the matter which is produced in the rays or particle accelerator does not live long in the atom sphere of the earth. Once its speed decreases it dies when it faces its equivalent matter that fills the atomsphere of the earth.
It is known that once the body meets ints mate, or the matter meets its mate, then they will destroy each other in an explosive way which turns both of them into a power, most of which is in Jamma rays form. One of the mysteries that puzzled physicians is the quantity of mates that is included in the building of the universe.
Is the earth a mini example of the universe? Does the matter exceeds its mate in the whole universe as is the case with the earth? We could possibly state that the percentage of mates of matter is very small in its sphere; otherwise most of it will spread among other stars and our explorers would register bigger quantities of Jamma rays. But who can confirm that the situation is not different than that which is found in other remote spheres of the Universe.
There might also be special spheres of mate matter; if that is so, then what prevents that sphere and its mate from coming together and then vanish by exploding? Is it the vast empty spaces made by Allah to separate the spheres and their mates? Does this theory give us an explanations of what Allah says; (it is God who sustains the heavens and the earth, that they cease (to function), and if they should fail, there is non-not one — can sustain them thereafter. Verily He is Most Forbearing. Oft-Forgiving).
The explosion vanishing of these spheres and their mates result in a large energetic power which makes the sky red like ointment. Allah says: (When the sky is rent a sunder, and it becomes red like ointment). And we don’t know how the sky becomes a sunder, and which part is rent asunder. However, if this happens and the sphere and its mate vanishes, then this means that the interior part of it will vanish and the whole universe will be distributed into two parts and the stars will vanish and become unclear.
Allah says; (Then when the starts become dim, when the heaven is cleft asunder) and if the stars vanish this way and it changes into energetic power, then the power which pulls these stars together will vanish and the stars scatter. Allah says: (when the sky is cleft asunder, when the stars are scattered), and this results in disorders in earth. Allah saysLWhen the oceans are suffered to burst forth) and says (When the mountains vanish (like a mirage). And (When the graves are turned upside down). These are the signs of the hour when everything dies and vanished and its only Allah who lasts forever..
The physics of bodies and its mates may give us an explanation for it since the destruction and vanishing of matter and its mate has become a scientific truth, which happens daily in particle accelerator which turns energy into matter. If we turn back again to the verse (and of everything we have created pairs), we can positively answer the question on the presence of matter and non-human beings in pairs — males and females of matter and its mate. This verifies the general explanation of the verse: (And everything we have created pairs that ye may received instruction).
It should be mentioned that the Muslims physicians — Mohammed Abdel Salam — Pakistani — who received the Nobel prize on Physics in 1979, had done important researches on the physics of bodies and their mates. He was the scientist who introduced the theory that combines two of the main four powers which influence the universe. The two powers are the electromagnetic power and the weak nuclear power. This scientist, after being rewarded the Nobel Prize, stated that the Quranic verse (And of everything we have created pairs) had influenced his instincts and pushed him forth during his research works. Extracted from (Ayat Quraniya in Mishkat Al —elem) by Dr. Yahyah Al-Mihjari)
This message has been edited by dandon83, 08-04-2004 06:29 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by pink sasquatch, posted 07-29-2004 3:27 PM pink sasquatch has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by CK, posted 08-04-2004 7:16 AM dandon83 has replied
 Message 164 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-04-2004 9:39 PM dandon83 has not replied
 Message 165 by pink sasquatch, posted 08-04-2004 10:06 PM dandon83 has not replied

  
CK
Member (Idle past 4150 days)
Posts: 3221
Joined: 07-04-2004


Message 149 of 165 (130254)
08-04-2004 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by dandon83
08-04-2004 7:12 AM


Re: Matter and the mate of matter
Let me give you a tip - no-one will read that.
Paragraphs are our friends.
This message has been edited by Charles Knight, 08-04-2004 06:17 AM

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 7:12 AM dandon83 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by dandon83, posted 08-04-2004 7:31 AM CK has replied

  
dandon83
Inactive Member


Message 150 of 165 (130255)
08-04-2004 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by CK
08-04-2004 7:03 AM


Re: BILLOWS TOPPED BY BILLOWS!
______________________________________________________________________
It appears to be saying that the deeper you go in the ocean, the darker it gets!
______________________________________________________________________
That is all what you have read?!!!!!!!!!
what about the billows story!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by CK, posted 08-04-2004 7:03 AM CK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by CK, posted 08-04-2004 7:18 AM dandon83 has replied

  
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