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Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
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Author | Topic: The UK Election!!!! | |||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
I'm not surprised Clegg came out top; I'm surprised by the margin though.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
You are, however, going to have to explain what "knackered" and "nappies" means in your vernacular. Knackered = tired Nappies = those garments you put on babies to catch their doings. Er, diapers?
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Tactical voting in this election is going to be a massive error because the result, right now, is far too unpredictable. The Lib Dems are sitting pretty in the polls, even more so among the younger age group more of whom have registered to vote than ever before. Tactical voting requires good knowledge of which party stands any chance of winning; we don't have that in this election.
Vote Liberal; the Good Guys can win this time.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Labour = used to be socialist. Now centre-right and highly authoritarian. Have been in power for last 13 years and presided over a huge increase in public spending that now turns out to be unsustainable. Also noted for constantly, constantly tampering with everything and setting bureaucratic targets as a means of "improving" services.
Conservatives (aka Tories) = our right wingers. Somewhat to the right of Labour, slightly less authoritarian (going by their manifesto if not past record). Their big ideas for this election are not introducing a planned tax rise, getting people to set up their own schools funded by the government to compete with the other government funded schools and letting private hospitals take NHS work if they can provide it as the same cost. Claim they'll slash our huge deficit faster than Labour but have no credible plan to do so. They're the most euroskeptic party. Either the Conservatives or Labour have ruled for about the last hundred years. Liberal Democrats = economically between the two big parties, but much less authoritarian than either. Their big plans involves raising the tax free allowance on income tax to 10k paid for by higher taxes on businesses and the more well off, not building new nukes, and pushing renewables instead of nuclear power, along with a bunch of green initiatives. Historically they've not stood a snowball's chance of winning anything but after the Leader's debate that's all changed. They're the most pro-European party Most likely outcome for the election is a hung parliament, possibly followed by a Lib/Tory pact.
What are their stances on say stemcell research, nuclear power, crime fighting, social security, that sort of stuff? All support stemcell research. Nuclear power is backed by all by the Liberals. The differences in actual crime fighting approaches are pretty slim - the Liberals have by far the most progressive approach to Justice though, supporting methods that have actually been shown to work instead of just sending more folks off on short prison sentences that do nothing to prevent re-offending. Social security: no-one proposes scrapping it. Labour will probably protect it the most, Tories have the most plans to try and force people back into work. Want more info, ask The Beeb Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Tactical voting is meaningless in seats where there is no competition. In seats where there is competition there's little reason to think that results this time round - based on polls as are - will provide sufficently accurate guides to make your tactical vote better than your preferred vote.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Well on what I see so far I've got only one question left. Why didn't people vote libdem in the past? The British people are a bunch of blitherin' idiots? Don't ask me. They've been head and shoulders above the other two in policy terms for as long as I've been alive, but never picked up many votes. I can only guess tribalism and a general belief they won't win elections.
They souund like my party all te way, except on the stance of nuclear power, which i think shouldn't be shunned as a "clean" power source. Not saying we should go completely neutral, but until we can say for sure that we have efficient clean power supplies, we shouldn't rule out nuclear just yet. Yeah, that's my biggest issue with them too. Still, they're much more focused on sorting out carbon emissions that the other parties, so it's not so bad.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Even when Libs get a large portion of the vote (as per current polls) it still leaves them trailing in terms of seats because that vote tends to be spread relatively evenly across the country rather than focussed such that it converts into actual seats. Overly concentrated votes also count against you. It's one of the reasons this election doesn't favour the Tories. You want to win every seat by a single vote to maximise your seats:votes ratio. Also, while the Liberals vote is a bit more spread than the other two, it's not that much more.
This is of course why they have always favoured a proportional representation system and the others have so far opposed it. I don't agree with your cynicism. Edited by Mr Jack, : No reason given.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
I guess we'll see how things actually pan out. But I would be far from surprised if the libs do get a comparable portion of the vote but nowhere near as many seats as either of the other two parties. Hope, damnit! It worked for the US and it can work for us!
Was it that cynical? To have a decent percentage of the vote but no comparable proportion of seats and be treated (up until now) very much as largely irrelevant is unfair and no doubt frustrating. I think the lib-dems reasons for advocating PR are both principled and self benefitting. Yes, they'll benefit from PR, I don't accept that's their reason for liking it. I don't think the Tories oppose it for self-benefiting reasons either; that strong government bollocks is the kind of thing they like. Labour's floppity, floppity position on it comes down to where the short term money is.
So you will be voting lib-dem then? Yes. I started out planning to vote Tory on a get rid of Labour tactical basis but given the way things have shifted I'm going to vote for the best party instead.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
I had hope in 1997. Look where that got me. Me too
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Looks like Clegg's narrowly won the second debate; there's a real chance of the Libs keeping - or increasing - their share of the vote right up to election day now.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
And Gordon commits the first grand gaff of the campaign. Poor chappie, it was always going to be him, wasn't it?
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
The big problem is that Labour and the Lib Dems don't have enough seats without taking some of the smaller parties on board, too. Barely, and the smaller parties would back them on electoral reform anyway (except the DUP who benefit more than anyone else from the current system).
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
If I (and many others) knew that the party I voted for might water down its policies in order to form a coallition, or include certain people from other parties in government then I wouldn't have voted for them. People voted for specific parties and specific policies, not a combination/variation of them. O_o So, because you can't impose the exact set of policies advocated by the party you voted for supported by a strict minority of the populous on the country as a whole it's wrong for parties to come to a compromise agreement between them that represents a reasonable balance between their ideals? How does that figure? A lib-con coalition won't represent the precise wills of either libs or cons but it will represent a compromise position between the two of them, surely that's a better representation of the disparate wills of the voters than either of the parties on their own.
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Then -and by the same token- it's surely even better for 36% of the voters (Cons) getting exactly what they wanted than 59% getting a watered down version, is it not? That makes no sense. (Also, I'm not huntard)
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Dr Jack Member Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined: Member Rating: 8.4 |
Yeah, I think that makes no sense.
The best outcome for a consensus decision is that a compromise is reached which is acceptable to the majority. Having a happy minority is a way back from that. It's also a shoddy way to run a government. Strong government is not a good thing, it's a bad thing. It leads to bad decisions being muscled through (as the last 30 years clearly show) rather than considered compromises.
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