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Author Topic:   The UK Election!!!!
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 80 of 427 (556518)
04-20-2010 9:08 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Kitsune
04-20-2010 8:05 AM


Re: If you're not voting tactically, you might as well not vote
Hi Kitsune,
But judging by the runaway popularity of the Lib Dems at the moment, I will vote strategically and see if we can kick the career Tory out.
Go for it!
It certainly is interesting to see the Lib Dem's getting a popularity boost. I doubt that they'll manage to maintain it, but if they do, it might change my vote.
Here in Leicester South we have a crap choice. On the one hand we have the Labour candidate, Peter Soulsby. I would be very happy to vote for him as my local representative. He's competent, works hard for his constituents and whenever I've pestered him over the past few years, which I've done a lot, he's been very helpful. On the other hand, the Lib Dem candidate does not strike me as impressive. He's inarticulate and I don't think he is competent to represent the constituents.
When I look at the national picture though, I am thoroughly disappointed by Labour's paucity if ambition and lack of any major achievements over the last decade. That tempts me to vote Liberal. If the Libs keep up the poll ratings they're getting right now, I might be tempted to throw my weight behind them, even if it means getting saddled with a duffer as my MP. Even though they still stand next-to-no-chance of forming a government, it would be interesting to see the balance of power shift a little.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Kitsune, posted 04-20-2010 8:05 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 9:19 AM Granny Magda has replied
 Message 83 by Kitsune, posted 04-20-2010 9:28 AM Granny Magda has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 82 of 427 (556528)
04-20-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by Huntard
04-20-2010 9:19 AM


Re: If you're not voting tactically, you might as well not vote
Hi Huntard,
Say you've got a very competent tory representative, he's realy good, has done a lot of work for his constituency, and as a result it has prospered. Yet you don't like the national tory party. Will you vote for him or not?
Well, given that I'd rather gnaw off my own legs than vote Tory, no. But you have hit my dilemma head on. It is a major drawback with the UK system. Both Labour and the Lib Dem's are talking about electoral reform at the moment, with only the Tories dragging their feet. Not sure I trust Labour to do it right though, given the disgraceful mess they've made of reforming the House of Lords. I would certainly support change, because the current system is badly broken.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 9:19 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 9:39 AM Granny Magda has replied
 Message 90 by Straggler, posted 04-20-2010 1:21 PM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 101 of 427 (556621)
04-20-2010 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Huntard
04-20-2010 9:39 AM


Re: If you're not voting tactically, you might as well not vote
Huntard writes:
I think this has to do with the national party, right? This is exactly what I mean, why not vote for a man that has brought your constituency prosperity?
I know exactly where you're coming from, but I just couldn't go as far as to actually vote Tory. They are the party of privilege. They only exist to look after the interests of the rich and they don't give a damn about anyone else. They made a horrible mess last time they were in government and I don't believe that they have sincerely changed.
Realistically, it is a rare MP that makes enough of a difference to his or her constituency that the local decision could completely eclipse the national decision. I think that both ways of deciding are valid though. The local aspect creates a level of accountability. Those MPs who work hard for their constituents generally do well, often bucking national trends.
They system we have in The Netherlands is a list of candidates for the entire country, Everybody gets to vote for the same persons, whether they are from your "constituency" or not (which is why we don't have constituencies). This prevents dilemmas like yours from happening. The drawback to this is of course that heavily populated areas are likely to have more "local" guys in the government, and they tend to forget the lesser populated areas. This tends to focus around the "big cities" of the "randstad", basically the are between Utrecht, Amsterdam The Hague and Rotterdam. Though I realize that our country is a lot smaller than yours, so implementing a system like that might be a bit hard over there.
It sounds like a good system mostly. It certainly means that the national vote is fairly represented in parliament, something that our first-past-the-post system is very bad at. I think you're right that it wouldn't wash in the UK though. People are very attached to the constituency system here.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Huntard, posted 04-20-2010 9:39 AM Huntard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 102 by Straggler, posted 04-20-2010 3:03 PM Granny Magda has replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 103 of 427 (556623)
04-20-2010 3:08 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Kitsune
04-20-2010 9:28 AM


Re: If you're not voting tactically, you might as well not vote
Hi Kitsune,
does something about the abysmal architectural planning that puts a space-age modern building next to (and dwarfing) one of the few landmarks from the Middle Ages we have left?
Hey! I like that building! It's shiny. Shiny is good.
To be honest I don't feel like my votes count for much at all,
I can appreciate your frustration. It's another unfortunate side effect of our set up. I think it's one you're going to be stuck with as well, even if the system is revised.
but I will vote in order to keep people like the BNP out.
I live in Highfields. They don't dare canvass around here. They'd get kicked shitless. Repeatedly.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Kitsune, posted 04-20-2010 9:28 AM Kitsune has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Kitsune, posted 04-21-2010 2:25 PM Granny Magda has seen this message but not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 104 of 427 (556654)
04-20-2010 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by Straggler
04-20-2010 3:03 PM


Re: If you're not voting tactically, you might as well not vote
Hi Straggler,
Having an actual representative specific to your area and it's concerns, having a specific person you can go and see about whatever local issue there might be, is not necessarily something to be given up without consideration.
Oh I didn't intend to talk it down. I really value being able to see a local MP. I wouldn't want to lose that. On the other hand, not all opposition to voting reform is going to be rational. I think there's going to be a conservative {small 'c'} element who just don't want to see change.
Mutate and Survive

This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by Straggler, posted 04-20-2010 3:03 PM Straggler has not replied

  
Granny Magda
Member
Posts: 2462
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 315 of 427 (560578)
05-16-2010 8:52 AM
Reply to: Message 314 by Straggler
05-15-2010 6:45 PM


Re: VOTE NOW - Calling All UK Members
Hi Straggler,
Let's see..
  • Voting reform _ with the Lib Dem's now in government, it seems increasingly absurd that we keep a political system which forces them into an unbreakable poor third place.
  • Tax reform - I think that the rich could be paying more and that people on low incomes shouldn't be perpetually paralysed by lack of money (crazy huh?). The gap between rich and poor has grown under "Labour" and that is shameful.
    So far the government promise a little bit of both, although I hardly think that the Tories are going to be keen re-distributors of wealth.
    Mutate and Survive

  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 314 by Straggler, posted 05-15-2010 6:45 PM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 316 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 9:05 AM Granny Magda has replied

      
    Granny Magda
    Member
    Posts: 2462
    From: UK
    Joined: 11-12-2007
    Member Rating: 4.0


    Message 317 of 427 (560586)
    05-16-2010 9:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 316 by Straggler
    05-16-2010 9:05 AM


    Re: VOTE NOW - Calling All UK Members
    To keep things simple in terms of seperating the issues with which to test Legend's methodology and your reasons for your choices do you mind if I translate your proposed issues into something like the following:
    Fine by me.
    This is their greatest failing of the last 13 years IMHO.
    Yeah. The problem I think is that Labour managed to trap themselves in a prison of their own making. They made themselves electable, but at the cost of their ambitions. They became terrified of any kind of bold action or challenge to the status quo. They were so afraid of losing the middle class vote that they simply sat on their hands. I think that if there is to be any point to a Labour government, they need to be more ambitious in their next administration, whenever that might be.
    Mutate and Survive

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 316 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 9:05 AM Straggler has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 318 by Straggler, posted 05-16-2010 9:44 AM Granny Magda has not replied

      
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