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Author Topic:   Can anything exist for an infinite time or outside of time?
mwharton479
Junior Member (Idle past 4887 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 11-06-2010


Message 151 of 158 (590116)
11-06-2010 5:08 AM


If the TOE is correct then it would be unfathomable to believe that insignificant lifeforms on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy could ever grasp the most minute iota of understanding of such complex concepts as time and space and all the ridiculously complex thought systems that man has a grasp on. That kind of higher thought, found only in humans only serves to undermine and negate the validity of the TOE.
But, if it must be discussed, the only explanation I need for man to possess such knowledge is his consumption of fruit from the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil, sometimes referred to as the Tree of Conscience. God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."
We should leave space and time to the one who didn't merely create it, but is actually the very essence of it. Only God knows when time started and when it ends because He is already there; "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End."
What we humans should then focus our energies on is what we are going to do with the time God has given us. It matters less where we came from and much more where humanity is going.

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Nij, posted 11-06-2010 5:29 AM mwharton479 has replied
 Message 153 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2010 6:07 AM mwharton479 has replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4889 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 152 of 158 (590117)
11-06-2010 5:29 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by mwharton479
11-06-2010 5:08 AM


If the TOE is correct then it would be unfathomable to believe that insignificant lifeforms on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy could ever grasp the most minute iota of understanding of such complex concepts as time and space and all the ridiculously complex thought systems that man has a grasp on. That kind of higher thought, found only in humans only serves to undermine and negate the validity of the TOE.
Nonsense. Evolution makes no predictions about what the exact abilities of any species should be.
And guess what? You're well off-topic on that, here. Go to a place where evolution is being debated (i.e. one of the theads devoted to that discussion) instead of spouting your crap everywhere.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by mwharton479, posted 11-06-2010 5:08 AM mwharton479 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 154 by mwharton479, posted 11-06-2010 9:04 AM Nij has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 153 of 158 (590119)
11-06-2010 6:07 AM
Reply to: Message 151 by mwharton479
11-06-2010 5:08 AM


If the TOE is correct then it would be unfathomable to believe that insignificant lifeforms on an insignificant planet in an insignificant galaxy could ever grasp the most minute iota of understanding of such complex concepts as time and space and all the ridiculously complex thought systems that man has a grasp on.
If you genuinely believe that human intellect is superfluous to our requirements, then try doing without it.
For the next month, every time you have a decision to make, don't follow the suggestions of your smart human brain. Instead, do what a monkey would do.
Let me know how you get on.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by mwharton479, posted 11-06-2010 5:08 AM mwharton479 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by mwharton479, posted 11-06-2010 9:24 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
mwharton479
Junior Member (Idle past 4887 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 11-06-2010


Message 154 of 158 (590142)
11-06-2010 9:04 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by Nij
11-06-2010 5:29 AM


And guess what? You're well off-topic on that, here.
Discussing the discussion itself is actually on-topic. Said discussion being that the whole question of time and space does not fit into the TOE, which is strictly about survival, but the fact that a non-animal, human species actually concerns himself with the concept of time and space only proves to undermine the TOE, which in turn would imply a creator being responsible for time and space, because without the TOE, at least for the atheist, there can be no other force great enough to make a creature capable of the higher intellect required to discuss matters of time and space.
Edited by mwharton479, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Nij, posted 11-06-2010 5:29 AM Nij has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 156 by Nij, posted 11-06-2010 10:14 PM mwharton479 has not replied

  
mwharton479
Junior Member (Idle past 4887 days)
Posts: 3
Joined: 11-06-2010


Message 155 of 158 (590146)
11-06-2010 9:24 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Dr Adequate
11-06-2010 6:07 AM


If you genuinely believe that human intellect is superfluous to our requirements, then try doing without it.
What would a human pretending to be a monkey pretending to be a human pretending to be a monkey pretending to be a human pretending to be a monkey (you get the idea) solve? It wouldn't make an iota of difference relating to the matters of time and space.
A more sensible approach would be for you to trade places with a monkey in the wild and see how well your "smart human brain" is suited for survival. Maybe you'd realize that the human brain is better suited for higher thought than a monkey's brain that is more suited for survival. That concept is called "primal instinct" and monkeys have it, as do all animals, and humans don't, which is what separates non-animal humans from all other lifeforms on the earth. Do any other lifeforms on the earth, specifically animals, even have the slightest comprehension of time and space? Not unless it has to do with getting the next meal in their gullet.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 153 by Dr Adequate, posted 11-06-2010 6:07 AM Dr Adequate has not replied

  
Nij
Member (Idle past 4889 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


(1)
Message 156 of 158 (590228)
11-06-2010 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 154 by mwharton479
11-06-2010 9:04 AM


.. the fact that a non-animal, human species actually concerns himself with the concept of time and space only proves to undermine the TOE ..
Once again: nonsense. That one species has developed cognitive ability as a result of evolution which enables it to consider questions beyond the moment means nothing except that it has done so.
Once again: off-topic. The question of whether evolution accomodates said ability is entirely irrelevant as to whether something may exist for infinite time or outside of time.
You maye have been able to determine this by a) knowing that the thread is in the Big Bang and Cosmology forum, meaning it has nothing to do with evolution at all, and b) reading the original post, which never implies, let alone mentions evolution.
You are way off base. Go to a thread where evolution is being discussed. This is not such a thread.
Edited by Nij, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 154 by mwharton479, posted 11-06-2010 9:04 AM mwharton479 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18262
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 157 of 158 (590262)
11-07-2010 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by onifre
04-16-2010 8:49 PM


Dr,Michio Kaku
Dr.Kaku has caught my interest lately. I stumbled upon him on You Tube talking about recent advances in Cosmology and the possibility of multi-verses. He has a good series on time as well. LINK:
Time-Dr.Michio Kaku
In this four-programme series, string theory pioneer Michio Kaku goes on an extraordinary exploration of the world in search of time.
He discovers our sense of time passing and the clocks that drive our bodies. He reveals the forces of time that make and destroy us in a lifetime. He journeys to some of the Earth's most spectacular geological sites to look for clues to the extraordinary depths of time at a planetary level. Finally, he takes us on a cosmic journey in search of the beginning (and the end) of time itself.
Even if scientists are wrong eventually, it is refreshing to listen to someone actually think and then point out theoretical support for their argument or theory. Science can be wonderful!
Edited by Phat, : fixed for clarification

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by onifre, posted 04-16-2010 8:49 PM onifre has not replied

  
pfrankinstein
Junior Member (Idle past 4446 days)
Posts: 5
Joined: 03-12-2011


Message 158 of 158 (609422)
03-19-2011 8:59 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
04-15-2010 11:48 AM


I am aware of the scientific view that it doesn’t even make sense to consider time before the Big Bang, because time started with the Big Bang. And I am aware of the religious counterpoint, that God existed outside of time and created time along with the Universe.
There is a way that time began before our big bang.
Suppose that an intelligence evolves/rises to such an extent that he is able to to start a bb and create a new universe from within his own, he would then be in his own spacetime and outside of the new spacetime that he had created.
If the destined end of our universe is stagnation, then an intelligence might attempt to put the fizz back in the bottle.
Paul.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 04-15-2010 11:48 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

  
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