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Author Topic:   Intelligent Design == Human Design?
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 144 of 196 (563013)
06-02-2010 8:56 PM
Reply to: Message 124 by tesla
05-31-2010 1:00 PM


Laymen
I'm quoting physics LAW and RELIABLE physics math...
... without understanding what the math is telling you!
This is the crux of your problem, tesla. You have a layman's understanding of the math/concepts without the knowledge of the underlying principles and their connection to the models from which they are derived.
One case in point:
Do you really understand what the spacetime singularity is and what it means?
What attributes for this singularity are derived from the math?
What do these attributes tell us about the models from which the equations sprang?
It's as if you heard or read about this singularity then stopped thinking. You did not read or comprehend the following paragraphs that relayed (or should have relayed) what the attributes of this singularity means to the underlying models.
You are so hell-bent on proving your preconceived religious point you can not be bothered with what a spacetime singularity means to the "physics LAW and RELIABLE physics math" you so errantly think you are quoting.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by tesla, posted 05-31-2010 1:00 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 2:54 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 148 of 196 (563108)
06-03-2010 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by tesla
06-03-2010 2:54 AM


Re: Laymen
singularity means : all of everything . that is. was one energy.
When a physicist refers to a singularity they are generally referring to a quantity which is infinite.
Precisely what I meant. You have it wrong.
Singularity ≠ all of everything.
Singularity ≠ existence.
Singularity = ignorance.
Singularity is the term used to describe that area where both of our most accurate models break down by showing impossible absurdities. It is that area of which we know nothing.
in this case they are ignoring that there is nothing else to interact with. i do not believe it was real tiny. i think it started out in something really big and inside that big something a small spot started to grow that became this universe.
You are ignoring the fact that no one knows if there was anything else to interact with or not. Your beliefs mean nothing.
The rest of your post is drivel.
Whether the Universe is an embedded manifold or not is unknown. Piercing the singularity cannot yet be done. The math tells you nothing because it does not yet exist.
You, further, extrapolate your intuition from things in our 4D existence onto those areas of ignorance. If there is one thing our models show, operating in those areas where they are known to have exceptional efficacy, it is that this Universe defies intuition at every level.
Edited by AZPaul3, : delete redundedunency
Edited by AZPaul3, : spelin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 2:54 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 149 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 11:19 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 150 of 196 (563119)
06-03-2010 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by tesla
06-03-2010 11:19 AM


Re: Laymen
now accept the fact the universe is expanding inside of an apparently infinite area ( and that the known universe has an edge). now what does the math say?
quote:
Whether the Universe is an embedded manifold or not is unknown.
  —AZPaul3
Your "fact" is not evidenced. It will not, cannot, be accepted.
quote:
The math tells you nothing because it does not yet exist.
  —AZPaul3
You say you respect the science and try to use the science, yet you twist then abandon the protocol for your religious speculations.
Fail.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 11:19 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:27 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


(1)
Message 155 of 196 (563252)
06-04-2010 6:04 AM
Reply to: Message 152 by tesla
06-03-2010 10:27 PM


Re: Laymen
space is a vacuum. it has to have an edge. have you ever seen a vacuum without containment?
We're talking the Universe here, tesla, not some damn bell jar on your table! Pull your head out of it man!
The universe is expanding, is this not true? can it expand with no area for the expansion?
So you do not know what "expansion" means and you do not understand the concept of an un-embedded manifold.
there is an edge our finite universe is expanding inside an "apparently infinite" area.
Sorry, tesla, there is no edge.
If spacetime is flat then the universe is infinite and unbounded. If curved then it is finite and like the surface of a sphere there is no edge.
At present most evidence points toward a flat Universe, yet, within the error bars, there may be a slight curvature. More study is required.
There must be a way to tie the edge to the math for a better view of what that means.
Since this edge does not exist that will be difficult.
You do not understand the most basic cosmological concepts. You keep relying on your intuition to build your model. Again, tesla, we have already seen, have proven beyond a doubt, that the Universe defies human intuition.
Only the evidence rules here, tesla, despite and contrary to your intuition.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:27 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 158 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:30 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 169 of 196 (563361)
06-04-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 158 by tesla
06-04-2010 8:30 AM


Re: Laymen
The dynamics of how things work Don't all of a sudden change just because it walks off the face of the earth.
There is your intuition, again. Yes, in fact, they do.
you show me a vacuum of negative pressure without containment then. go ahead. show me.
As Huntard already suggested, look up and go about 30,000 km. You really don't have to go that far but I figure the exercise will do you some good.
The BBT is based on whats that science tells everyone?
Yes, precisely.
the universe i expanding? how many links you want? is expanding so hard a word to define?
We don't need any links. Science has a great deal of evidence that the Universe is expanding and in an accelerating way.
The counter intuitive thing is that the Universe is not expanding into anything. Wrap you tiny little mind around that one!
What are you going to tell me next?
Remember, you asked for this.
You're an idiot.
quote:
Sorry, tesla, there is no edge.
oh? and what proof do you base your hypothesis?
See FLRW and WMAP.
The evidence (not proof, mind you, this is not religion) is in the math.
Since the math appears to be beyond you I'll provide some simple-minded kiddie links that give a flavor of what the math shows.
here and here
since your so smart and all knowing how about my flying car now.
OK.
Your flying car will not be. This is not because of the technology, which does exist, but because of society.
We have enough problems with idiots behind the wheel of cars firmly planted upon the surface. Imagine the havoc of letting those fools loose in the air!
Not gonna happen.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 158 by tesla, posted 06-04-2010 8:30 AM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by tesla, posted 06-06-2010 9:49 AM AZPaul3 has replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 175 of 196 (563651)
06-06-2010 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by tesla
06-06-2010 10:13 AM


Re: Flying car
How to you "note" a post without reply?
See the "tesla has not yet responded" at the bottom of a post?
Click on it. It will change to "tesla acknowledges this reply"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by tesla, posted 06-06-2010 10:13 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 180 of 196 (563658)
06-06-2010 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 171 by tesla
06-06-2010 9:49 AM


Re: Laymen
you cannot see the edge in space. its too far. doesnt mean it isnt there.
And there are a lot of things that lack any evidence whatsoever, and are contrary to the evidence we do have, that I cannot see. That certainly does not mean they are there just to fulfill an emotional need.
Math does not mean anything without evidence to support it. the math is lying to you. it doesnt know about the edge.
Since you do not know what the math says, or better yet, why the math is structured as it is, your conclusion here is warrantless, intellectually dishonest.
You need evidence just like i do.
Got plenty of it. You just do not care to see it.
Thats fine. Go tell everyone i am an idiot. but if im right, even if it takes five or six years, i'll prove it.
Well, best of luck to you in your endeavor. Send us a post card from Stockholm.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by tesla, posted 06-06-2010 9:49 AM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8551
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 190 of 196 (564132)
06-08-2010 12:39 PM
Reply to: Message 187 by tesla
06-07-2010 10:23 PM


Re: laymen
lastly..i still cannot see any vacuum that can exist without an edge or border. space is a lame example. you cannot see its edges if any exist they are beyond our vision.
There you go with your myopic view from your common sense experience again without understanding the basic concept.
Vacuum does not possess any power. Vacuum does not "suck" things into it.
Here on earth, to maintain a vacuum, it must be contained because the atmospheric pressures outside the vacuum will rush inward to occupy that volume. It is only the pressure differential between a dense atmosphere and a less dense atmosphere that define a vacuum.
In space, the atoms of the earth are held here by gravity. In its absence our atmosphere would migrate out into the less dense regions (vacuum) of space. It is the atoms flowing out, not the vacuum pulling, that would happen.
On a Universal level, as a non-embedded manifold, there is no pressure differential from "outside" against which some kind of "edge" or "containment" is needed.
Edited by AZPaul3, : better syntax

This message is a reply to:
 Message 187 by tesla, posted 06-07-2010 10:23 PM tesla has seen this message but not replied

  
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