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Author Topic:   Human Evolution
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 16 of 102 (571674)
08-01-2010 10:42 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by barbara
08-01-2010 1:37 PM


Re: Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Or through its course in history the genes used in the beginning have been deleted or changed for modification as time moved on so it would not be a reliable source?

It's because they do change that we're able to establish phylogenetic (DNA-based) evolutionary trees. We use genes that are "highly conserved", by which we mean they:

1)Have identical function throughout the species in which they are found, and
2) Perform a crucial function, such that drastic mutation is usually fatal to the organism and therefore experience mutational change only very slowly

Using such genes we can construct trees of evolutionary ancestry. One such recent project compared genes for the major ribosomal subunit, and contributed to this:

The node at the very center, of course, is the Last Universal Common Ancestor, or "LUCA."


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Ken Fabos
Member (Idle past 1536 days)
Posts: 51
From: Australia
Joined: 05-09-2010


Message 17 of 102 (573347)
08-10-2010 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by CosmicAtheist
04-18-2010 4:56 AM


Ongoing evolution
I think (just speculating) we are subject to more maladaptation than adaptation and, due to the cleverness of our species in overcoming physical limitations we probably carry more negative traits than most species could tolerate.
It would be hard to tell what changes would benefit humanity until or unless some serious limitation to our survival is come up against - though we are probably better equipped to tell the difference than at any time in history. It might seem unlikely from the perspective of a citizen of a modern techno-democracy, but, given that humanity is indeed edging up against (and may have already passed) the limitations of our global environment and given our inability or unwillingness to trade our short term economic opportunities away for long term sustainability, there's no reason to think that future humanity won't again face day to day struggle for survival. We can be smart but retain an almost limitless ability to be stupid along with it.
Of course we are likely to see deliberate genetic modification that potentially could be inheritable, although commercial practices make it likely that inheritability will be deliberately left out (much like the current trade in genetically modified seeds) in order to prevent proprietary DNA being disseminated free of charge. I don't know if this would qualify as evolution as such, even when inheritable.
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5504
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 18 of 102 (573350)
08-11-2010 12:08 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Ken Fabos
08-10-2010 11:50 PM


Re: Ongoing evolution
Ken Fabos writes:
I think (just speculating) we are subject to more maladaptation than adaptation and, due to the cleverness of our species in overcoming physical limitations we probably carry more negative traits than most species could tolerate.

That's actually good. It means that there is a large amount of genetic variation within the population. So of seriously hard times arise, that increases the likelihood that within that variation, there will be genetic combinations that can survive the crisis.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 19 of 102 (586604)
10-14-2010 8:44 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Taz
04-18-2010 4:07 PM


EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
To believe evolution came from a particle in space, or from a ape, is nonsense, and is ignorance that is getting in the way that is clouding the truth.

If we came from a monkey, we would be "IMMUNE" to "HIV", since the green monkey, that we traced this virus back to, can live with this virus, and we can't, and never will be immune in the future. A virus never evolves into being immune. Therefore stop with the monkey evolution theory. A monkey also didn't turn into a human, by just eating diffrent foods, as the evolution theory supports, and by getting smarter, that does not reduce hair growth, a baby monkey is far more filled with hair than a baby human, of which GOD created, so start believing, that Jesus christ is our savior, and we are here, because GOD wants to see if he can trust us for the upcoming battle, when the devil trys to take over his world, we already showed when eve tempted adam that not all of us can be trusted. When that day comes, and currently, need to choose the correct path. It is irrelevant to say british people are still in britain, don't make sense, britain is a country, and britsh people are just called that, since their from there, i just read this from a forum. If we came from a "PARTICLE" is nonsence, we would see a cat, dog, or any animal, and human evolving before our very eyes, just in the mid air, from a dust particle, you know, that we have to be iinside a womb, so BACTERIA does not get in. You believe this, you believe in sperm, floating in the a particle, that mysteriously gets into a ovary for fertilization, to make a baby, and that bacteria does not exist. Also the obvious one, is that monkeys would be evolving today. When the earth was destroyed once, Noah brought all animals, and one of those was a monkey. Don't you think this would be documented after the first destruction???? Pegs law now should be put into prospective, since theere is a GOD. You people believe that food makes you evolve into a entire diffrent species with alot more hair, or a dust particle floats down and forms a baby in mid air. Sounds rediculous, and why they would be teaching this in school, i don't know, is a total myth, is far a myth, should not even consider it as true. Evolution is so not true.


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Wounded King
Member (Idle past 1445 days)
Posts: 4149
From: Edinburgh, Scotland
Joined: 04-09-2003


Message 20 of 102 (586605)
10-14-2010 8:53 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by matt101
10-14-2010 8:44 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Congratulations Matt. I think that post may contain the highest density of completely incorrect statements about what evolution is about that I have yet seen on EvC.

It doesn't seem that you ever knew anything about evolution to forget.

TTFN,

WK

Edited by Wounded King, : No reason given.


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Coragyps
Member
Posts: 5266
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002
Member Rating: 6.1


Message 21 of 102 (586607)
10-14-2010 8:57 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by matt101
10-14-2010 8:44 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Hello, Matt, and welcome to EvC!

If you will hang around and read a bit here, you will perhaps learn a little about what science actually says evolution is. If you do that, perhaps you will write something that isn't total nonsense the next time you post.

Or maybe you still will.


"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD
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Larni
Member
Posts: 3932
From: UK
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 22 of 102 (586608)
10-14-2010 9:00 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by matt101
10-14-2010 8:44 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
A monkey also didn't turn into a human, by just eating diffrent foods, as the evolution theory supports,

ToE does not say that monkeys 'turned into humans'.

If we came from a "PARTICLE" is nonsence, we would see a cat, dog, or any animal, and human evolving before our very eyes, just in the mid air, from a dust particle, you know, that we have to be iinside a womb, so BACTERIA does not get in.

ToE does not say we evolved from a partical. Nor does it say we should see humans 'evolving before our very eyes'.

You believe this, you believe in sperm, floating in the a particle, that mysteriously gets into a ovary for fertilization, to make a baby, and that bacteria does not exist.

Nobody who has had high school or higher training in biology believes this.

Also the obvious one, is that monkeys would be evolving today.

Every living thing will evolve if it is not suited to it's environment.

You people believe that food makes you evolve into a entire diffrent species with alot more hair, or a dust particle floats down and forms a baby in mid air.

Nobody believes this.

Evolution is so not true.

You have not described evolution but you has described what many, many religious people believe evolution to be. This is a 'strawman arguement' and in no way reflects what is called evolution by biologists.

I don't don't know where you are getting your ideas about evolution but they are all wrong.

Edited by Larni, : fixed quote


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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1214
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 23 of 102 (586613)
10-14-2010 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by matt101
10-14-2010 8:44 AM


Monkeys, humans and HIV
My word. That's a lot of nonsense to cram into one paragraph. I'll just pick out one argument from the melange, or this post could take three years to write.

If we came from a monkey, we would be "IMMUNE" to "HIV"

Your argument seems to be that, because a monkey possesses x (in this case immunity to HIV), humans must all possess x if they descended from them. In order to make this argument, it wasn't necessary to go for something as obscure as a protein that blocks HIV from working. You could have pointed to tails, for example.

It's important to note that not all monkeys are the same - New World monkeys tend to have prehensile tails while Old World monkeys don't, for example. Proboscis monkeys have huge noses, snub-nosed monkeys have almost no nose. Since their common ancestor, these monkeys have diversified - some traits were lost in some populations, others were gained in some populations. Humans, also, have changed from our common ancestor with monkeys. We don't have tails, we stand upright, we've got massive brains and we have a different form of the TRIM5-alpha protein (the protein which seems to block the spread of HIV in some monkeys).

Basically, what your arguing here is 'evolution can't have happened, because humans are different to their ancestors'. If you think about that sentence, I think you'll see that you've drastically missed the point.

Edited by caffeine, : for clarity

Edited by caffeine, : To remove an errant letter 'p'


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frako
Member
Posts: 2678
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 24 of 102 (586616)
10-14-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by matt101
10-14-2010 8:44 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Pegs law now should be put into prospective, since theere is a GOD

yes and that god is the ALMIGHTY SPAGETTI MONSTER or as i like to call him NOODELS.

as for all the other crap you wrote, try reading what evolution actualy is and what the theory says.


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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 25 of 102 (586620)
10-14-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Larni
10-14-2010 9:00 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Yes they do believe this, no matter what science entails, is utterly impossible, the evolution document show believes this, they said our brains, when we were monkeys worked together, and got larger, and started to take better care of ourselves, eating better, thus making the big evolution from ape to human, is nonsence. My posts that sound stupid are true in the sense that people would not believe in evolution if they looked farther into it, as my posts that you commented on, saying no one believes this, states. Now if you can tell me anything science has to do with any of this, since i took science, then i'll reconsider, but i know there is not anything that portrays this as true. Science is made serious, when really it sounds rediculous, when you papraphrase it, and put it in diffrent words, because that is what scientists are saying, a form of mass in space, with anti matter comes together and forms something out in mid air. Is a myth. Medical studies don't lie with HIV, we are not immune today, which green monkeys are, of which we traced this virus back to.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 26 of 102 (586621)
10-14-2010 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Larni
10-14-2010 9:00 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Yes they do believe this, no matter what science entails, is utterly impossible, the evolution document show believes this, they said our brains, when we were monkeys worked together, and got larger, and started to take better care of ourselves, eating better, thus making the big evolution from ape to human, is nonsence. My posts that sound stupid are true in the sense that people would not believe in evolution if they looked farther into it, as my posts that you commented on, saying no one believes this, states. Now if you can tell me anything science has to do with any of this, since i took science, then i'll reconsider, but i know there is not anything that portrays this as true. Science is made serious, when really it sounds rediculous, when you papraphrase it, and put it in diffrent words, because that is what scientists are saying, a form of mass in space, with anti matter comes together and forms something out in mid air. Is a myth. Medical studies don't lie with HIV, we are not immune today, which green monkeys are, of which we traced this virus back to.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 27 of 102 (586622)
10-14-2010 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by frako
10-14-2010 9:40 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Have you ever seen the evolution document show on the history channel, is nonsence, and this is what they are saying.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 28 of 102 (586624)
10-14-2010 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by caffeine
10-14-2010 9:17 AM


Re: Monkeys, humans and HIV
humans are diffrent than there ancestors, is my point. so not all monkeys are identical, but since HIV was traced back to a green monkey, that would mean that SOME people would only be immune today from the HIV virus. That is not the case.
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 29 of 102 (586627)
10-14-2010 10:08 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by matt101
10-14-2010 9:52 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
My posts that sound stupid are true in the sense that people would not believe in evolution if they looked farther into it, as my posts that you commented on, saying no one believes this, states.

Have you ever seen the evolution document show on the history channel, is nonsence, and this is what they are saying.

Is the History Channel the extent of your knowledge about evolution? That and religious indoctrination?

As far as "people would not believe in evolution if they looked farther into it," I studied evolution for six years in graduate school, through to the Ph.D. exams, with emphasis on fossil man. I find your statement totally incorrect. Everything points toward evolution; only a few particular religious beliefs argue against it.

How about putting forth your single best argument against evolution and we'll see what we can make of it?


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2262 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 30 of 102 (586628)
10-14-2010 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by Larni
10-14-2010 9:00 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
The T 5 protien that stops HIV, does that get rid of HIV,no... when this so called evolution occured from monkey to human, and are we immune to HIV now, no, are only some of us immune to HIV, no...DO christians believe this, yes, and is the only practical reasoning, athiest should become believers, if they just think for themselves. Also other affected monkeys with HIV, would have spread it populating, since evolution would not have happened in a split second, and when giving birth, if a human would have came out of a monkey, which is the only way, if you don't believe that food caused the big evolution, which actually that would be impossible, because is no logical explanation, how a monkey turned into a human. If this happened some of us would be immune, and we don't have a cure for HIV today. The T5 is not used today to cure HIV, is impossible to cure, we can only slow it down.
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