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Author Topic:   Human Evolution
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1346
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 31 of 102 (586631)
10-14-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by matt101
10-14-2010 9:58 AM


Re: Monkeys, humans and HIV
Why should people be immune?

HIV isn't traced back to an origin in one species of monkey. The direct ancestor of HIV is believed to be the SIV (simian immunodeficiency virus) in chimpanzees, which itself is believed to have arisen from a hybridisation event between two different viruses found in monkeys - the red-capped mangabey and greater spot-nosed monkey.

Many different African monkey species have their own type of SIV, all of them having evolved from a common ancestor to become adapted to different hosts, and one of which eventually became adapted to humans.

Now, as it happens, the human form of the virus doesn't work in at least some types of African monkey, and one explanation put forward is that the old-world monkey form of the protein TRIM5-alpha, which works as part of the immune system in primates, seems to prevent the virus from shedding its protective protein coat and reproducing.

Because, however, humans and old world monkeys have different forms of this protein, on account of them evolving seperately for millions of years, the human form doesn't work against HIV in the same way (if it did, the virus would never have become HIV, as it couldn't have infected humans). Note that this protein doesn't protect the monkeys against various forms of SIV - those versions of the virus adapted to infect old world monkeys.

So I don't understand your point. Why should humans be expected to possess the same form of a protein as cousins that our ancestors split from some thirty million years ago (give or take 5 million)?


This message is a reply to:
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 32 of 102 (586634)
10-14-2010 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 29 by Coyote
10-14-2010 10:08 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
If the HIV virus got blocked, ok...when evolution was occuring(tell me how this could have happened in the first place, did food do it?, what can we do to make less hair growth, since a monkey has alot of hair, that means we could reverse hair growth, we can't is my point) How can any class say the T5 protien can block anything, when no one has ever seen evolution occur? We can only today, slow it down. If this happened, how come some of us are not immune to HIV. I don't get any evidence from anything here, PHD or what in whatever, the factors in not believing in evolution is far greater than an athiest point of view. This history show was all about evolution in how it happened, and is nonsense. Can't believe they are teaching this in schools.
This message is a reply to:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 33 of 102 (586635)
10-14-2010 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 32 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:20 AM


Fact
matt101 writes:

If this happened, how come some of us are not immune to HIV.

Some of us are.


Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio

Real things always push back.
-William James


This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:20 AM matt101 has responded

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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 34 of 102 (586636)
10-14-2010 10:25 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by caffeine
10-14-2010 10:15 AM


Re: Monkeys, humans and HIV
What i looked up on a document, they did only come from a green monkey, people would eat green monkey, and get HIV, is how the spread occured. Talk as much science as you want, can we reduce hair growth back to it's original state, with being that hairy, evolution does not make sense, we look so diffrent, what made us change???? our faces are set in, there noses are so diffrent, you would have to believe that food made this change, and monkeys working together, that is like us getting smarter, and turning into a bird.
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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 35 of 102 (586637)
10-14-2010 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Omnivorous
10-14-2010 10:24 AM


Re: Fact
No we are not, how can you say that??
This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Omnivorous, posted 10-14-2010 10:24 AM Omnivorous has responded

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 Message 36 by Omnivorous, posted 10-14-2010 10:33 AM matt101 has responded

    
Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 36 of 102 (586638)
10-14-2010 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:28 AM


Re: Fact
Because it is true.

Google "HIV immunity" and check it for yourself.

It's not so strange: I was born with a natural immunity to small pox and chicken pox.

These immunities are one reason plagues and epidemics leave some survivors.


Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio

Real things always push back.
-William James


This message is a reply to:
 Message 35 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:28 AM matt101 has responded

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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 37 of 102 (586639)
10-14-2010 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Omnivorous
10-14-2010 10:33 AM


Re: Fact
Even if monkeys have diffrent protiens, when they evolved, some of us, would be immune to HIV, and some would not, in this case we are not immune to HIV, none of us, chicken pox is totally diffrent, a WBC virus, is what it is, affects the body in high levels of concentration, that is why we don't even have a vaccine for it yet, like chicken pox, i was immune too. If monkeys are so similiar, we should be able to reverse hair growth, to be ultra hairy, and be able to pop out our faces by not eating the food that caused evolution as athiest must believe, since it is obsurd with evolution. A human can not turn into a diffrent animal, by eating, or doing something diffrent that is against thier nature, we can't fly, or do alot of stuff animals do. How do you explain other animals with evolution, with being able to breath under water, what makes that happen??? that is a aquired natural characterisitc, that alone says evolution is not true, and that there is a GOD.
This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Omnivorous
Member (Idle past 530 days)
Posts: 3808
From: Adirondackia
Joined: 07-21-2005


Message 38 of 102 (586640)
10-14-2010 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:46 AM


Fact
Some of us are immune to HIV.


Dost thou prate, rogue?
-Cassio

Real things always push back.
-William James


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:46 AM matt101 has not yet responded

    
matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 39 of 102 (586641)
10-14-2010 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:46 AM


Re: Fact
"To be protected, people must inherit the genes from both parents; those who inherit a mutated gene from just one parent will end up with greater resistance against HIV than other people, but they won't be immune"

This proves me correct, in a sence that some of us would be immune and some would not. I LOOKED It up on google.

Read More http://www.wired.com/...lth/news/2005/01/66198#ixzz12LRfPjSS


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Panda
Member (Idle past 1275 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 40 of 102 (586642)
10-14-2010 10:52 AM
Reply to: Message 34 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:25 AM


Re: Monkeys, humans and HIV
I have no idea what it would be like to find out that so many of the people I respected were telling me falsehoods.

To discover that my teachers and parents were raising me to believe in lies and propaganda would probably rock me to my core.

It would also be very difficult for me to hear strangers point out the flaws in what I was being taught.
I guess I would probably just covers my ears and say "La la la! I can't hear you!"
Cognitive dissonance FTW.

I wish you strength and good luck.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:25 AM matt101 has responded

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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 41 of 102 (586643)
10-14-2010 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 39 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:51 AM


Re: Fact
It is rare to get paired up with someone with the same gene, to have a child that is immune to HIV, to get HIV proves that, we don't know who has it.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:51 AM matt101 has not yet responded

    
matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 42 of 102 (586645)
10-14-2010 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Panda
10-14-2010 10:52 AM


Re: Monkeys, humans and HIV
that just makes me angry, parents teaching that, even teachers.
This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 29473
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 43 of 102 (586646)
10-14-2010 10:56 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:11 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
DO christians believe this, yes, and is the only practical reasoning, athiest should become believers, if they just think for themselves.

You need to stop right there.

Evolution has nothing to do with Christianity or Atheism and if you keep asserting that it does everyone will just know that you are either ignorant or deliberately posting falsehoods.

The fact that evolution happened and is happening and that the Theory of Evolution is the ONLY model that explains what we see is acknowledged by most Christians.

In the words of the Clergy Project Letter:

quote:
We believe that the theory of evolution is a foundational scientific truth, one that has stood up to rigorous scrutiny and upon which much of human knowledge and achievement rests. To reject this truth or to treat it as “one theory among others” is to deliberately embrace scientific ignorance and transmit such ignorance to our children. We believe that among God’s good gifts are human minds capable of critical thought and that the failure to fully employ this gift is a rejection of the will of our Creator. To argue that God’s loving plan of salvation for humanity precludes the full employment of the God-given faculty of reason is to attempt to limit God, an act of hubris. We urge school board members to preserve the integrity of the science curriculum by affirming the teaching of the theory of evolution as a core component of human knowledge.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by matt101, posted 10-14-2010 10:11 AM matt101 has responded

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frako
Member
Posts: 2708
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010


Message 44 of 102 (586647)
10-14-2010 10:57 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by matt101
10-14-2010 10:46 AM


Re: Fact
Even if monkeys have diffrent protiens, when they evolved, some of us, would be immune to HIV, and some would not, in this case we are not immune to HIV, none of us, chicken pox is totally diffrent, a WBC virus, is what it is, affects the body in high levels of concentration, that is why we don't even have a vaccine for it yet, like chicken pox, i was immune too. If monkeys are so similiar, we should be able to reverse hair growth, to be ultra hairy, and be able to pop out our faces by not eating the food that caused evolution as athiest must believe, since it is obsurd with evolution. A human can not turn into a diffrent animal, by eating, or doing something diffrent that is against thier nature, we can't fly, or do alot of stuff animals do. How do you explain other animals with evolution, with being able to breath under water, what makes that happen??? that is a aquired natural characterisitc, that alone says evolution is not true, and that there is a GOD.
Even if monkeys have diffrent protiens, when they evolved, some of us, would be immune to HIV, and some would not, in this case we are not immune to HIV, none of us, chicken pox is totally diffrent, a WBC virus, is what it is, affects the body in high levels of concentration, that is why we don't even have a vaccine for it yet, like chicken pox, i was immune too. If monkeys are so similiar, we should be able to reverse hair growth, to be ultra hairy, and be able to pop out our faces by not eating the food that caused evolution as athiest must believe, since it is obsurd with evolution. A human can not turn into a diffrent animal, by eating, or doing something diffrent that is against thier nature, we can't fly, or do alot of stuff animals do. How do you explain other animals with evolution, with being able to breath under water, what makes that happen??? that is a aquired natural characterisitc, that alone says evolution is not true, and that there is a GOD.

first of all we did not evolve from monkeys we evolved from a pre monkey typ creature that split in to monkey, ape and human predecessors. Secondly the typ of food you eat does not efect things on such a scale granted if a species starts to eat diferent foods their digestive systems will evolve to acomodate that typ of food better though tis does not happen instantainusly it happens over a long time and lots of generations. i think you do not know what evolution is and you think things happen in an instant they dont it takes time and lots of generations and mutations. as for the hair part well there are people that have fur problems their whole body is coverd by furr like hair the gen that regulates this mutates.


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matt101 
Suspended Member (Idle past 2474 days)
Posts: 40
Joined: 10-14-2010


Message 45 of 102 (586648)
10-14-2010 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by jar
10-14-2010 10:56 AM


Re: EVOLUTION, FORGET IT
Yes it does, if you believe in evolution, you don't believe in GOD, you know why? It states in the bible that GOD created each in his own image.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by jar, posted 10-14-2010 10:56 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by jar, posted 10-14-2010 11:10 AM matt101 has responded
 Message 49 by frako, posted 10-14-2010 11:18 AM matt101 has responded

    
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