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subbie
Member
Posts: 3358
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 211 of 244 (557337)
04-24-2010 5:42 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 4:54 PM


Re: Voting Rights
Buz, there's really only one response to this installment of your "wisdom."


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:54 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 298 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 212 of 244 (557340)
04-24-2010 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 4:54 PM


Re: Voting Rights
Holy shitballs, Buz.

...voting is not included in their role...

Role = barefoot and pregnant, I assume?

Let the flames commence.


"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:54 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 213 of 244 (557341)
04-24-2010 6:02 PM


Unstubstantiated Meanspirited Asserted Personal Attacks
My response to you who post blind asserted personal attacks, posting substanceless messages, assigning 1 ratings disregarding observed facts is that you should refute my facts before personal attacking and rating my message.

What about it? Post some substance. Enlighten the worldwide web. What have I stated that you can falsify? Isn't EvC the science forum where we substantiate acclamations?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by subbie, posted 04-24-2010 6:12 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 215 by Son, posted 04-24-2010 6:15 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 216 by Apothecus, posted 04-24-2010 6:42 PM Buzsaw has responded
 Message 228 by Rrhain, posted 04-24-2010 9:17 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
subbie
Member
Posts: 3358
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 214 of 244 (557343)
04-24-2010 6:12 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 6:02 PM


Let me call you a waaaaaaaaaaaaaambulance
There are some positions that are so mind-boggling bereft of any meaningful substance that the only appropriate response is ridicule. Thomas Jefferson identified one, as I outline in my signature. You have produced another one. Anyone who could even pretend to hold the position you describe cannot be influenced by a substantive reply. I already knew that you were such a person. You really didn't need to provide further proof of your inability to perceive reality, but it was nice of you to do so anyway.

Interestingly, according to Wiki, there are only two places in the world where women aren't allowed to vote, Saudi Arabia and the Holy See. This is the sort of company you find yourself in, Buz. I hope I'm not the only one who sees the delicious irony in this fact.

Edited by subbie, : Subtitle


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 6:02 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Son
Member (Idle past 303 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 215 of 244 (557344)
04-24-2010 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 6:02 PM


Re: Unstubstantiated Meanspirited Asserted Personal Attacks
Why don't you take a look at nordic countries where women influence in politics and otherwise is much more pronounced? Being weaker may be the way you taught your daughter and grand-daughter, but well educated women actually do quite well.

By the way, yourself have shown no evidence for your assertions and reality itself proves you false:
http://www.weforum.org/...0Parity/GenderGapNetwork/index.htm


This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 6:02 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 298 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 216 of 244 (557348)
04-24-2010 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 6:02 PM


Re: Unstubstantiated Meanspirited Asserted Personal Attacks
Hey Buz.

No offense, but you strike me as similar to an acquaintance of mine who, unfortunately for him, finds shit all over his feet whenever his mouth opens up. The difference between you and this fellow is that it's easier for you to filter your comments when typing than it is for him to prohibit the inane foolishness from escaping his yap. You also have the luxury of this being an anonymous forum; I doubt even you would be so "forthcoming" with your ridiculousness in the company of others who may not share your views.

So with this question ...

Apo writes:

Role = barefoot and pregnant, I assume?

... I was attempting to gain insight into Buz's world. What would be your opinion for women's "role" in society?

Just curious.

Have a good one.


"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964
This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 6:02 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 219 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 7:43 PM Apothecus has responded

    
PsychMJC
Member
Posts: 36
From: Modesto, California
Joined: 11-30-2007


Message 217 of 244 (557353)
04-24-2010 7:24 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 4:54 PM


Re: Voting Rights
However too many of them unwisely ignored the phenomenal fact of the male leadership role throughout human history and in most of the animal kingdom ever since the recording of history.

What phenomenal fact are you hinting at? That a majority of societies in the past were strictly male-dominated? Yeah, I think most people here will agree with that. But you can't discount the numerous societies around the globe that do or have revered, respected, and sometimes bowed down to the will of their women. Are you saying that those societies have weaknesses because of their structure? Perhaps. If that is what you are saying then I expect you to support that. If you ARE saying that then I am sure I can some up with numerous flaws in a male dominated society as well. It would appear that the most effective way for a society to function is for ALL members of that society to have an equal voice. That's just one of my craaaaazy ideas I came up with, I know it sounds terrifying.

As for animals, I would ask you to support your opinion that most of the animal kingdom is strictly male-dominated and why you think those structures are superior.

Since women are more emotional and easily persuaded and manipulated, imo, voting is not included in their role, though their legitimate role in culture is no less important than that of the male.

Thats good. Any support for this opinion?

Why, Dr Adequate, have most door to door sales companies advocated dealing with the woman of the house?

Silly.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:54 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member
Posts: 4766
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 218 of 244 (557354)
04-24-2010 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 208 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 4:54 PM


Re: Voting Rights and other nonsense
Buz -- Where do you come up with this stuff?

Is this in the Bible? Or do you make this up on your own?

Seriously.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 208 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:54 PM Buzsaw has responded

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 219 of 244 (557356)
04-24-2010 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Apothecus
04-24-2010 6:42 PM


Re: Who're Really The Odd Ones?
Apothecus writes:

I was attempting to gain insight into Buz's world. What would be your opinion for women's "role" in society?

Hi Apothecus. Thanks for asking. Come, let us reason together. According to Wiki, Ole man Buz's position on the role of women is compatible with billions of folks in nearly every human culture since history was recorded. It wasn't until around the beginning of the 20th century AD that the first nation worldwide instituted women sufferage.

It happens to be the moderns who are the odd ones. For all of the previous thousands of years, all of the nations assumed my position.

It was not until 1920 that the majority of Americans began to part ways from my position.

How do you respond to the specifics of my message which set off this personal attack? Whether one is an evolutionist or Biblical creationist (The Bible lends support to my position), reality is that all cultures have until recently held my position. Why should such a verbal firestorm ensue because I take the traditional position?

Having taken my position, it should be understood that the Biblical NT principles should be applied relative to the necessity of husbands, love and cherish your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for it (not exact but close quote). If the husband loves his wife, his leadership role will not be oppressive as it is depicted in, say, Mohammed's Quran, the Sunnahs and the the Haddith, and for that matter in some pagan cultures.

Also, my friend, what about my points that women are more emotional and easily persuaded by nature. Is it irrevelant that door to door sales companies understand that it's easier to sell to the woman of the house than the man? Is ole man Buz crazy for citing this or are my counterparts willfully ignoring the facts of life?


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Apothecus, posted 04-24-2010 6:42 PM Apothecus has responded

Replies to this message:
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Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 220 of 244 (557360)
04-24-2010 8:09 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by PsychMJC
04-24-2010 7:24 PM


Re: Voting Rights
PsychMIC writes:

Buzsaw writes:

Why, Dr Adequate, have most door to door sales companies advocated dealing with the woman of the house?

Silly.

Silly? Back when I was a youngun selling for Prudential, it was a known fact One reason that I didn't fare so well is that I insisted on the presence of both husband and wife before sales pitches. One beautiful young wife invited me in, but I declined and left my card. The husband called and schedled an appointment. He thanked me for waiting for him and ended up being a buyer.

Now it's politically uncorrect to say so, but facts trump popularity and political correctness for ole man Buz.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by PsychMJC, posted 04-24-2010 7:24 PM PsychMJC has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 221 of 244 (557361)
04-24-2010 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by Coyote
04-24-2010 7:30 PM


Re: Voting Rights and other nonsense
Coyote writes:

Buz -- Where do you come up with this stuff?
Is this in the Bible? Or do you make this up on your own?

Seriously.

Hi Coyote. Did my 1 rated response to Apothecus make any sense to you? If that message didn't answer your inquiry, I'd be happy to answer further inquiries.

Yes, it is the Biblical position as it has been with nearly all cultures. Imo, the Biblical position works out best for both men and women relative to how they are designed both mentally and physically.

No doubt you're aware of these differences in the genders.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by Coyote, posted 04-24-2010 7:30 PM Coyote has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Faith, posted 04-24-2010 8:36 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 222 of 244 (557363)
04-24-2010 8:28 PM


Topic Drift
Perhaps we're too adrift of topic for further debate on the role of women. If someone wishes to go further on this, one would open a new thread for that. Unless it pertains to this topic I think it best not to respond further.

My apologies to Coyote for offering further comment. As soon as I posted it the topic problem came to mind.


BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.
Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by Coyote, posted 04-24-2010 8:31 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded
 Message 237 by anglagard, posted 04-25-2010 6:11 PM Buzsaw has responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 4766
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 223 of 244 (557366)
04-24-2010 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 8:28 PM


Re: Topic Drift
You're probably right about topic drift.

If you start a separate thread I'll be happy to participate. I have a few opinions to offer.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 8:28 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 16230
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 224 of 244 (557367)
04-24-2010 8:36 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 8:20 PM


Re: Voting Rights and other nonsense
I'd be careful making the Bible the equivalent of fallen human cultures, Buz. Christ gave women a new status in the world compared to the position relegated to us by fallen man. That was one of Christianity's greatest achievements.

Some Christian men have wrongly adhered to the fallen cultural standard on the flimsiest of excuses they could make out of the Bible.

There is nothing in the New Testament to deny women the vote or participation as leaders in worldly occupations either.

Also, when feminism started growing in the 19th century there were many injustices to women that had to be corrected. Women lost everything if their husband left them, children, everything, and if the husband died they lost all the property as they weren't permitted to own property.

And this whole business about women being more emotional is not in the Bible either. We are considered to be more easily deceived than men because Eve was while Adam wasn't, and I'm not going to fight it since it's in the Bible but it isn't the blanket difference you are claiming.

Also, while some women are more easily deceived than some men, not all women are more easily deceived than all men and some women are less easily deceived than some men.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 8:20 PM Buzsaw has not yet responded

    
Rrhain
Member
Posts: 5720
From: San Diego, CA, USA
Joined: 05-03-2003


Message 225 of 244 (557368)
04-24-2010 8:47 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Dr Adequate
04-23-2010 10:46 PM


Dr Adequate writes:

quote:
So far as I know, the first country to give women the right to vote was New Zealand

In the sense that it was universal, wasn't later rescinded, and was for an entire country, then New Zealand was the first, though other countries toyed around with it.

For example, the Pitcairn Islands beat New Zealand by more than 50 years, but they were a British Territory, not an independent country.

And then there was Franceville in the New Hebrides. They were the first to grant universal suffrage not only regardless of sex but also of race in 1889, four years before New Zealand, but they quickly lost their independence. They were, depending on how you look at it, in rebellion since there wasn't any functional government over them at the time. While Franceville allowed all to vote, only white males could hold office.

Sweden has an interesting history. They're the first country to actually allow women to vote at all, but it was only granted to those who were members of the city guilds in 1718. That right was then taken away (for local elections in 1758 and then the general elections were rescinded in 1771). They then re-granted women the right to vote in 1862, but only in local elections.

The Isle of Man (which is in a bizarre relationship with the British Crown...not exactly part of the United Kingdom, but still ruled by the Monarch) granted the vote to property-owning women in 1881.

This isn't to take anything away from New Zealand. They certainly did it in the simplest way. They included not only women but also Maori women (though they couldn't hold office). South Australia follows the next year and surpasses New Zealand by not only allowing universal suffrage to women but also allows them to hold office in Parliament.


Rrhain

Thank you for your submission to Science. Your paper was reviewed by a jury of seventh graders so that they could look for balance and to allow them to make up their own minds. We are sorry to say that they found your paper "bogus," specifically describing the section on the laboratory work "boring." We regret that we will be unable to publish your work at this time.

Minds are like parachutes. Just because you've lost yours doesn't mean you can use mine.
This message is a reply to:
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