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Author Topic:   Creationist problems with radiocarbon dating
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9325
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 167 of 194 (684431)
12-17-2012 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by morningstar2008
12-17-2012 2:47 PM


Re: Calibration of Radiocarbon Dating, an old earth, and calibrations
Of all of these reasons, I realized one thing. You want to get rid of you uncomfortable conversation.

You could not be more wrong. Most of the participants here really enjoy debating this stuff. Unfortunately, holding a conversation with you is entirely too difficult to be enjoyable.


Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 2:47 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 8:42 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
Dr Adequate
Member
Posts: 15476
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 168 of 194 (684525)
12-17-2012 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by Percy
12-17-2012 2:03 PM


Re: Calibration of Radiocarbon Dating, an old earth, and calibrations
If you put intelligible English in then you get intelligible English out.

An elegant demonstration, but perhaps that's because it produced really execrable Russian as the intermediate step.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 165 by Percy, posted 12-17-2012 2:03 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 170 by Percy, posted 12-17-2012 8:49 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded
 Message 172 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 9:01 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 169 of 194 (684556)
12-17-2012 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by NoNukes
12-17-2012 3:04 PM


Re: Calibration of Radiocarbon Dating, an old earth, and calibrations
Tell me what you do it would be like. I will follow your advice. Once that is profitable? I came here with a suitcase full of his proposals. I want to give them away. The fact that this burden will not burn my shoulders. In the house, for some reason, I say the same thing. I thought that foreign friends will be smarter. Why would you make a problem out of the blue? I do not take it as a point?

Tell me what you do it would be like. I will follow your advice. Once that is profitable? I came here with a suitcase full of his proposals. I want to give them away. The fact that this burden will not burn my shoulders. In the house, for some reason I could say the same thing. I thought that foreign friends will be smarter. Why would you make a problem out of the blue? I do not take it as a point?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 167 by NoNukes, posted 12-17-2012 3:04 PM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Coyote, posted 12-17-2012 8:52 PM morningstar2008 has responded

    
Percy
Member
Posts: 15491
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.3


Message 170 of 194 (684559)
12-17-2012 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Dr Adequate
12-17-2012 6:28 PM


Re: Calibration of Radiocarbon Dating, an old earth, and calibrations
It would be an interesting exercise to find a Russian discussion board and see if one could carry on a passable discussion using Google translate.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-17-2012 6:28 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 171 of 194 (684560)
12-17-2012 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by morningstar2008
12-17-2012 8:42 PM


Radiocarbon Dating
You need to tell us clearly why you think radiocarbon dating is inaccurate.

Several of us know quite a bit about the subject.

I have submitted about 600 samples, and have lectured and written on the subject. In fact, I just received the results of a sample today.

Keep it simple, and in English.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 8:42 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 173 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 9:56 PM Coyote has responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 172 of 194 (684565)
12-17-2012 9:01 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by Dr Adequate
12-17-2012 6:28 PM


Re: Calibration of Radiocarbon Dating, an old earth, and calibrations
Guys read the original. He's under my every post. That's all I can offer. And get out of my skin to turn it inside out and then again to get into it. I already powerless to do. You probably do not like the fact that I run into radiocarbon dating, which you so ardently support it. But if this method did not create such a global problem. And I said that almost all tied dating world science. And one wrong decision can distort the entire chain.

Guys read the original. I have it under every post. This is all that I can offer. And get out of my skin turn it inside out and log back into it. I was powerless. You probably do not like the fact that I run in radiocarbon dating, which you so ardently support it. But if this method does not create a global problem. And I said, almost all connected dating world science. And one wrong decision can distort the entire chain.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by Dr Adequate, posted 12-17-2012 6:28 PM Dr Adequate has not yet responded

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 173 of 194 (684570)
12-17-2012 9:56 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Coyote
12-17-2012 8:52 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating
You need to tell us clearly why you think radiocarbon dating is inaccurate.
Several of us know quite a bit about the subject.

I have submitted about 600 samples, and have lectured and written on the subject. In fact, I just received the results of a sample today.

Keep it simple, and in English.
___________________________
There was a suggestion to cancel the radiocarbon dating past 50,000 years the statute of limitations. Maybe he's right. But only on terms that will actually distort the picture. But I promise you in the dating 20000000000 years.
You can screw up your eyes who do not believe in what they read. But it is. There are also breed in 50000000000 years or more. And do not take me sick. That chalk drawn 20 and which crushed limestone on top of sandstone array exceeds 50. As I drove my calculations? Sorry but these details need to go step by step counting each step a separate tape. I am 8 years created his theory. 8 years of hard work. Do not know can you can find a way and a bit shorter. But I analyzed and compared every single breed. Recorded all of its flaws. How much damage it time. And the stones which unfortunately is mercilessly. The strongest stone silicon outer part of which is damaged to the shedding from the surface of grains. But I do not know its exact dating for lack of an intermediary. For cemented sandstone that as I learned long ago not covered limestone cliffs. The same story is not short of. Cemented sandstone mountains. Grand Canyon is just one of them, were formed in a certain era. How to calculate the age of one, and how they change. Well, if you follow logically that if the sandstone crushed limestone hill above the sequence goes from the bottom up. And now I will reveal more stunning results of their research and who have weak nerves can screw up my eyes and my ears. Our planet is not be covered once powerful tsunami firestorm. The result of which was a nuclear explosion of a supernova. Supernova that means mega huge. From here and probably trace iridium and spraying lead and plutonium. Each deposition result of such disasters but with different time intervals. It is clear that the decay of uranium goes through several stages and tracks are spraying stage collapse to the floor collapse. But this is just a summary of which should still work.
Now excuse me as time is always short. Must have been a half an hour to run. And if you do not run away before I can and will continue. Their fables. Only the desire to do it melts every day as iridium footprint. Maybe by that that does not listen carefully?
_________________
There was a proposal to cancel the radiocarbon dating of the last 50,000 years, the statute of limitations. Maybe he's right. But only on condition that actually distort. But I promise you, in the dating 20000000000 years.
You can spoil your eyes who do not believe in what they are reading. But it is. There are also breed in 50000000000 or more years. And do not get me sick. Chalk it turns 20 and that of crushed limestone on top of sandstone massif than 50. When I drove my calculations? Sorry, but those details have to go step by step, counting each step separate tape. I am 8 years old his theory. 8 years of hard work. Do not know if you can find a route and a little shorter. But I have analyzed and compared each breed. Have it's drawbacks. How much damage it time. And the stones, which, unfortunately, mercilessly. The strongest stone silicon outer part is damaged to the shedding from the surface of the grain. But I do not know its exact dating for the lack of intermediaries. For cement sandstone, which, as I learned long ago not covered limestone cliffs. The same story is not enough. Solid mountain of sandstone. The Grand Canyon is only one of them, were formed in a certain era. How to calculate the age of one, and how they change. Well, if you logically follows that if the sandstone Crushed limestone hill above the sequence goes from the bottom up. And now I will show more stunning results of their research, and who have weak nerves can ruin my eyes and ears. Our planet will not be covered once powerful tsunami storm. The result, which was a nuclear explosion of a supernova. Supernova, this means that the mega huge. Hence, perhaps, trace iridium and spraying lead and plutonium. Each deposition from such disasters, but with different time intervals. It is clear that the decay of uranium goes through several stages and paths spraying stage of the collapse to the floor collapse. But this is only a summary, which should work.
Now, excuse me, just never enough. It must have been half an hour to run. And if you did not run away before I can and will continue. Their fables. Only the desire to make it melt each day as iridium footprint. Perhaps, by the fact that not listen carefully?
Original put later http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.1/0_8010c_e3afd1f7_XXL.jpg

Edited by morningstar2008, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by Coyote, posted 12-17-2012 8:52 PM Coyote has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2012 10:14 PM morningstar2008 has responded
 Message 175 by Coyote, posted 12-18-2012 12:29 AM morningstar2008 has responded
 Message 180 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 3:55 AM morningstar2008 has not yet responded

    
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 174 of 194 (684571)
12-17-2012 10:14 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by morningstar2008
12-17-2012 9:56 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating and basics of radioactive decay
Hi morningstar2008,

There was a suggestion to cancel the radiocarbon dating past 50,000 years the statute of limitations.

I'm going back to basics here to possibly find some resolution.

14C Calibration and Correlations

quote:
When you realize that one is a linear system of varve counting and the other is a mathematical model based on actual measurements that are along an exponential distribution:


Graph of actual 14C content versus actual time intervals from time "X"

There is no rational reason for the 14C curve to make the same change in slope at the same time as the varve age curve, unless it measures the same thing that the varve counting does - age.


The graph shows the decay for 14C. The reason that 14C dating can only be used up to 50,000 years ago is because at that age the amount of 14C left to measure becomes to small.

But I promise you in the dating 20000000000 years.

easier to read with comma delimiters: 20,000,000,000 ... or say 20 billion or 20x10^9 or 20e+9.

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 9:56 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 176 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 12:35 AM RAZD has acknowledged this reply
 Message 181 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 4:08 AM RAZD has responded

  
Coyote
Member
Posts: 5540
Joined: 01-12-2008
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 175 of 194 (684585)
12-18-2012 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by morningstar2008
12-17-2012 9:56 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating
Your answer has nothing to do with radiocarbon dating.

Try again with more science and less nonsense.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Belief gets in the way of learning--Robert A. Heinlein

It's not what we don't know that hurts, it's what we know that ain't so--Will Rogers


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 9:56 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 1:07 AM Coyote has not yet responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 176 of 194 (684588)
12-18-2012 12:35 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by RAZD
12-17-2012 10:14 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating and basics of radioactive decay
easier to read with comma delimiters: 20,000,000,000 ... or say 20 billion or 20x10^9 or 20e+9.

RAZD Thanks for the future necessarily uchtu.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2012 10:14 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2012 12:54 AM morningstar2008 has responded

    
NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9325
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 177 of 194 (684591)
12-18-2012 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 176 by morningstar2008
12-18-2012 12:35 AM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating and basics of radioactive decay
What event are we describing using a date result of 50 billion years, or even 20 billion years? Aren't those values greater than the current age of the entire universe? (ducking head before you know who shows up...)

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 176 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 12:35 AM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 179 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 1:22 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply
 Message 185 by morningstar2008, posted 12-18-2012 2:33 PM NoNukes has not yet responded

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 178 of 194 (684593)
12-18-2012 1:07 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by Coyote
12-18-2012 12:29 AM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating
Your answer has nothing to do with radiocarbon dating.
Try again with more science and less nonsense.
_____________________________________
Well, I warned you a chur susceptible children and adolescents from the screens clean.
You did not listen to my advice. You just can not imagine that all that you have done before products are actually nonsense. If you want obidtes me. That should calm you. But if you happen to suddenly your imagination and try to imagine. Chalk limestone okremnelizatsii passed the stage. In addition, it is the stage of uranium dating younger sohraneniya.Peschanik in plain bonded sand with grains of sand. Something you've probably heard about the stone roads. This track from carts or cars. Does not matter. Our Russia is still possible to meet such a miracle. But why do not they turn to stone or can not understand. This would be for Russia was a gift for all the tracks, when the road suddenly turned to stone relsy.Rul, in this case, the car will be more than attributes of Russian equipment. However, a miracle happens. And the ruts become deeper, and the cars they are stuck in the old way.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.1/0_8010d_d20fedd5_XXL.jpg
This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Coyote, posted 12-18-2012 12:29 AM Coyote has not yet responded

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 179 of 194 (684594)
12-18-2012 1:22 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by NoNukes
12-18-2012 12:54 AM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating and basics of radioactive decay
What event are we describing using a date result of 50 billion years, or even 20 billion years? Aren't those values greater than the current age of the entire universe? (ducking head before you know who shows up...)
_____________________________________
If you want me to lay down on the tracks, as it promised to show our former President Boris Yeltsin, then I'm ready to get back on track.
Do you think that this is the age of the universe? Then you are wildly mistaken. Of course, it's hard to believe, but I went through the whole chain and the beginning of the universe and discovered. It is eternal. And my rightness figures lie precisely in the previous text. Earth region of space standards are not that big, but it contains all the background. Not only for its development, and it can be like a mirror to see the history of the universe. And the fact that the universe is infinite, and the fact that it is eternal in one.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by NoNukes, posted 12-18-2012 12:54 AM NoNukes has acknowledged this reply

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 180 of 194 (684603)
12-18-2012 3:55 AM
Reply to: Message 173 by morningstar2008
12-17-2012 9:56 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating
The currently accepted ages of the stars among astronomers are millions to billions of years old. Among creationists, however, the creation of the universe, which include the stars, only happened 6 thousand years ago.
Is the universe billions and billions of years old or is it only 6 thousand years old as is claimed by biblical creationists? Do current dating techniques of these stars used by astronomers accurately portray their real ages?
These kinds of questions abound at EvC Forum. Peruse our Most Recent Topics page, or Search the Forums for an interesting topic. You can propose your own new topic at our Proposed New Topics page.
__________________________________
I found these lines in the resource http://www.evcforum.net/ They look familiar to anyone who visits this forum. But now that the refusal to enter into a conflict with the program kreatsianistskoy own program modern science is under attack by alternative researchers. Will they come into contact with new facts or equivalent kriotsionistskoy will continue its overgrown and more faith that the universe in time has its limits. I think that the fight against the creationists is killing a lot of time in the modern scientist. And this fight is stopped scientific progress. I think it's time to wake up from the illusion and move forward.
Morningstar2008
This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by morningstar2008, posted 12-17-2012 9:56 PM morningstar2008 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1336 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 181 of 194 (684605)
12-18-2012 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by RAZD
12-17-2012 10:14 PM


Re: Radiocarbon Dating and basics of radioactive decay
The graph shows the decay for 14C. The reason that 14C dating can only be used up to 50,000 years ago is because at that age the amount of 14C left to measure becomes to small.
______________________________
It is my understanding that during the approach to the measurement of the curve of infinity is absurd.
Well, that just proves that only a ruler to measure the radiocarbon dating does not make sense.
I understand you correctly?

I think Mr. Kayot it will be interesting.

Edited by morningstar2008, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by RAZD, posted 12-17-2012 10:14 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Taq, posted 12-18-2012 11:11 AM morningstar2008 has responded
 Message 189 by RAZD, posted 12-21-2012 3:29 PM morningstar2008 has not yet responded

    
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