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Author Topic:   Creationist problems with radiocarbon dating
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 122 of 194 (683972)
12-14-2012 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by morningstar2008
12-14-2012 8:06 AM


disagree with who and what
Hi morningstar2008, and welcome to the fray.

I feel quite sure that we will have to agree to disagree on the veracity of dating techniques, ...

You can deny evidence, but that denial is not disagreement per se, it is delusion.

... but if you wish to go through the usual arguments, I can oblige but it is likely going to a repetition of the same debate.

What debate? Facts are empirical objective information that is not open to debate, just denial or acceptance. The earth is old, get used to it.

As noted by Coyote, there are a couple of threads discussing correlations between dating methods and other evidence (Age Correlations and An Old Earth, Version 2 No 1 and 14C Calibration and Correlations for instance, and there is also Are Uranium Halos the best evidence of (a) an old earth AND (b) constant physics?).

The usual creationists attempts to discredit these and similar systems do not address the correlations, and this is where they fail spectacularly. There is no rational reason for all the correlations unless the data is either accurate or ALL illusionary (including that yesterday occurred).

If you want to make the obligatory creationist attempt, I would be happy to answer your posts on one of those threads. Your job is not to whack down a bunch of creationist fallacies, but to address the issue of correlations: why do they occur if the dating systems are invalid? NO creationist has been able to explain this in the 8 years since I posted the first version.

... under a range of sedimentary strata that all have knife edge boundaries in the horizontal plane. My point being that this is typical of rapid deposition. ...

It is actually MORE typical of non-rapid deposition. What rapid deposition would normally look like is one mixed layer (with some grading of particles by size and density). There is NO mechanism to stop and start different layers in creationist rapid deposition models.

Misunderstanding evidence doesn't mean you can debate or disagree on what it means.

Enjoy

... as you are new here, some posting tips:

type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:

quotes are easy

or type [quote]quotes are easy[/quote] and it becomes:

quote:
quotes are easy

also check out (help) links on any formatting questions when in the reply window.

For other formatting tips see Posting Tips
For a quick overview see EvC Forum Primer
If you have problems with replies see Report Discussion Problems Here 3.0

Edited by RAZD, : ps tips added


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Х Х Х Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) Х Х Х

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by morningstar2008, posted 12-14-2012 8:06 AM morningstar2008 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Panda, posted 12-14-2012 6:31 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Panda
Member (Idle past 1062 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


(1)
Message 123 of 194 (683977)
12-14-2012 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by RAZD
12-14-2012 6:04 PM


Re: disagree with who and what
Seriously guys...
morning star has only posted 1 word in English: "Russian".

The rest is a quote from Calibrated Thinker.


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by RAZD, posted 12-14-2012 6:04 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 18241
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 124 of 194 (684010)
12-14-2012 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by morningstar2008
12-14-2012 8:06 AM


for morningstar2008
Hello again morningstar2008

From the Introduction To Geology thread Message 209 you posted:

quote:
Hello. very interesting subject. But for me probably will be rather difficult. As I in physics am not so strong, but nevertheless there is a wish to understand архи. I will explain why. My purpose of visit of this forum was to find the expert who has skills in definition of radio-carbon dating. And this interest is chosen not casually. At some stage I noticed that the radio-carbon method shows not those data. And if to understand in essence that can be found places where cretaceous layers are shifted by the coal. Though by natural definition it is possible to call with confidence 100% cretaceous prime, and then have to be coal. But radio-carbon measurements for any reason show on a turn. Especially as chalk in itself has to stand as the coal which has faded from time.
Other aspect. http://fotki.yandex.ru/users/ibr2020-12/view/674138?page=0
To us this photo it is noticed as limestones any breed blocks still. But in my opinion it is sandstone hardened. I approximately calculated as the hardened breeds of sandstones were formed. And for me big surprise began to see and understand that before sandstones were formed there could be still any life on a planet. Moreover and in such quantity. I certainly don't say goodbye but that more while I won't be able to tell about it. After all I couldn't finish the author at all the picture to show on this district.

... But for me probably will be rather difficult. As I in physics am not so strong, but nevertheless there is a wish to understand архи. ...

There also appears to be a language barrier, and that your translator to english is imperfect and incomplete.

... My purpose of visit of this forum was to find the expert who has skills in definition of radio-carbon dating. And this interest is chosen not casually. At some stage I noticed that the radio-carbon method shows not those data. And if to understand in essence that can be found places where cretaceous layers are shifted by the coal. ...

The usefulness of 14-C dating is limited to 50,000 years at best. This means that coal and cretaceous layers cannot be dated by this method, as they are too old.

... But radio-carbon measurements for any reason show on a turn. Especially as chalk in itself has to stand as the coal which has faded from time.

This doesn't mean anything in english as translated, sorry.

To us this photo it is noticed as limestones any breed blocks still. But in my opinion it is sandstone hardened. ...

Curiously, your opinion is strangely incapable of changing one type of rock into another. Limestone is determined by the chemical content of the stones, and sandstone is determined by the chemical content of the stones. Sandstone hardened (solidified?) is still sandstone.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Х Х Х Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) Х Х Х

This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by morningstar2008, posted 12-14-2012 8:06 AM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 12:25 PM RAZD has responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 125 of 194 (684127)
12-15-2012 8:55 PM
Reply to: Message 118 by morningstar2008
12-14-2012 2:15 PM


Not however will I understand? Some sediment remained from meeting with America. By a country hospitable and cordial. Why that I disbelieve that a problem of the computer formatting was here a basic problem.
But now however. I will go in Zimbabwe can on a black continent people will be посообразительней, And their computers will not give out a virus.
Well, and suitcase it I abandon you.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff27_9f55c704_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff2a_68d61715_XXL.jpg
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http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff31_ff2591cc_XXL.jpg
________________________________________________
Message 339 http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=1340&mpp=15...
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff2a_68d61715_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff61_94ab1eb6_XL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff62_de5de8a0_XL.jpg
I suppose here, a virus will not penetrate read not bad. Only however problem with a translator again. Well, really will there be not a single Russian in all America? At one time there so much emigrated to the people. That, perhaps, Russians there now more than native population.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 118 by morningstar2008, posted 12-14-2012 2:15 PM morningstar2008 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 126 by Panda, posted 12-15-2012 11:00 PM morningstar2008 has responded
 Message 128 by dwise1, posted 12-16-2012 12:23 AM morningstar2008 has responded

    
Panda
Member (Idle past 1062 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 126 of 194 (684137)
12-15-2012 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by morningstar2008
12-15-2012 8:55 PM


morningstar writes:

Well, and suitcase it I abandon you.


Truer words ne'er spoken.

"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by morningstar2008, posted 12-15-2012 8:55 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 12:02 AM Panda has not yet responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 127 of 194 (684141)
12-16-2012 12:02 AM
Reply to: Message 126 by Panda
12-15-2012 11:00 PM


Now the dirty translation from English into Russian, you Dear Panda me somewhat rebuked. But that's if you believe the translator. Well actually maybe you I was offered around carefully to understand. But how do I know the true direction of your thoughts? From this conclusion, until we reach the semantic turn in translations of our thoughts, our peoples will never agree with one another. (A) require from me whatever I studied English?
Maybe you're right. But if I now follow your advice what should I study languages of all peoples of the world. Not ambiguous, but true. After all, it is my intention to push through his idea at least in one of the many countries of the world. And if you've zaprâgaete in the sense that I have given almost chewed material. And we only have to take a spoonful and swallow it.
In addition I must once and bow to you in the legs. If it were in my power I would personally came and bowed to each of you who speaks broken English and language explained the purpose of his visit. But I created a theory which is able to break down the whole sustainable peace science. It's part of dating was the main foundation of all that is wrong with nagromoždeno over the years. Alas I don't what to say.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff63_4fac1a22_XXL.jpg
This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 2687
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 128 of 194 (684142)
12-16-2012 12:23 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by morningstar2008
12-15-2012 8:55 PM


Well, really will there be not a single Russian in all America?

Would not make the slightest difference when you post complete gibberish like this (copy and pasted directly from your own post to which this is a reply):
посообразительней

Maybe if you were to actually post что-нибут по руский, then a Russian would be able to make sense of what you write. But as long as you instead insist on posting complete gibberish (as I had quoted from you above), then this entire world could be completely filled with Russians and still nobody would be able to understand what you write.

Besides, this forum is in English, which means that we post everything in English. Not posting in the standard language of this forum is rude and persistent rudeness will not be received well.

Both things I have told you in this message are very simple and self-evident and should be obvious to anybody capable of thinking. Why are you unable to understand them?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by morningstar2008, posted 12-15-2012 8:55 PM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 2:26 AM dwise1 has responded

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 129 of 194 (684150)
12-16-2012 2:26 AM
Reply to: Message 128 by dwise1
12-16-2012 12:23 AM


Out of all your text I saw only one word (crazy). What it means in English, and when they are Americans. The meaning of one word can change a whole track further communication. There is a saying in Russia. In writing expressions (executed cannot be pardon). How to properly put a punctuation mark, and will look like the meaning of the message. Unfortunately, in your case the DELIRIUM means how to execute cannot be pardoned.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff66_74c68a6b_XL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff65_2fd50b21_XL.jpg
This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by dwise1, posted 12-16-2012 12:23 AM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by dwise1, posted 12-16-2012 3:31 AM morningstar2008 has responded
 Message 131 by NoNukes, posted 12-16-2012 4:08 AM morningstar2008 has responded

    
dwise1
Member
Posts: 2687
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 130 of 194 (684152)
12-16-2012 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by morningstar2008
12-16-2012 2:26 AM


And still you are unable or unwilling to understand those two simple concepts.

OK, I tried. Your failure here is your own damned fault.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 2:26 AM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
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NoNukes
Member
Posts: 9321
From: Central NC USA
Joined: 08-13-2010
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 131 of 194 (684154)
12-16-2012 4:08 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by morningstar2008
12-16-2012 2:26 AM


Suggestion
You might try translating the English text back to Russian before posting. If the re-translated Russian text does not make sense, then don't put it on the forum.

Under a government which imprisons any unjustly, the true place for a just man is also in prison. Thoreau: Civil Disobedience (1846)

The apathy of the people is enough to make every statue leap from its pedestal and hasten the resurrection of the dead. William Lloyd Garrison.

If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. Frederick Douglass


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 2:26 AM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
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morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 132 of 194 (684159)
12-16-2012 4:22 AM
Reply to: Message 130 by dwise1
12-16-2012 3:31 AM


I am sure that you have correctly selected the decision. But I want to take time out to listen to other English-speaking citizens.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by dwise1, posted 12-16-2012 3:31 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

    
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 133 of 194 (684160)
12-16-2012 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by NoNukes
12-16-2012 4:08 AM


Re: Suggestion
Thanks for the useful advice, But I had already done. It turns out the more obvious how to speak. Shorter than wild horses neighing. and I'm in complete hysterics. The only thing I can suggest is a reference to the original text in pictures. And then you have to decrypt already my original Scribble. The package I gathered my view should reflect to us the essence of the fallacy of the radiocarbon method.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff27_9f55c704_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff2a_68d61715_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff29_3e3bca56_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff31_ff2591cc_XXL.jpg
Message 339 http://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=page&t=1340&mpp=15...
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_7ff2a_68d61715_XXL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff61_94ab1eb6_XL.jpg
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...7702.0/0_7ff62_de5de8a0_XL.jpg
This message is a reply to:
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Panda
Member (Idle past 1062 days)
Posts: 2688
From: UK
Joined: 10-04-2010


Message 134 of 194 (684166)
12-16-2012 7:01 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by morningstar2008
12-16-2012 4:36 AM


Re: Suggestion
Your translation software is not very good.
Ваш перевод программного обеспечения не очень хорошо.

Try using Google Translate.
попробуйте использовать Google Translate.

I found it quite successful for the translation of other languages.
Я нашел это довольно успешным для перевода других языков.


"There is no great invention, from fire to flying, which has not been hailed as an insult to some god." J. B. S. Haldane

This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 4:36 AM morningstar2008 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 8:25 AM Panda has not yet responded
 Message 136 by morningstar2008, posted 12-16-2012 8:37 AM Panda has responded

  
morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 135 of 194 (684171)
12-16-2012 8:25 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Panda
12-16-2012 7:01 AM


Re: Suggestion
They are not well translated. So as we say in Russia "horseradish radish is sweeter" your writing I have to scroll down just a few translators. One's lying in one place the other in another. But if I do not understand it Paul woes. But if my text on there dropped comma, or something like that. Not the word. What is your impression on so many iskazâtsâ that you are not nice to doslušivat′ until the end. And I'm a man of his word. And if my word is distorted for me it will be a big hit. Yes, and it is not the most important thing. Chief is still the truth. And it is worth more than any words.
For me now the main thing that you have learned only one thing. From chalk and coal is split by time which depends at what point the water filled up one or the other pools. The crust broke dropping the level of the oceans. Will be a time of course everything will fall into place. And apparently still do not need to send an expedition that would check all my arguments. But my point should be understood today. And from this point to begin a new reference point.
And further on is the cause and effect of the Pacific, Atlantic, Indian, and others. Will talk about the Mariana hollow. And what are the Northern lowlands. It's all Dells are alternately water swamped during the lifetime of an evolutionary world.
http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/...702.0/0_80014_3e86bb80_XXL.jpg
This message is a reply to:
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morningstar2008
Member (Idle past 1335 days)
Posts: 43
From: ≈катеринбург
Joined: 12-11-2012


Message 136 of 194 (684173)
12-16-2012 8:37 AM
Reply to: Message 134 by Panda
12-16-2012 7:01 AM


Re: Suggestion
Created a translation
http://translate.google.co.uk/?hl=en&tab=wT#ru/en/
Determine the difference.
They all do not translate well. So as we say in Russia, "Horseradish is not sweeter than" your text once I scroll through a few translators. One lies in the same place in each other. But if I do not understand it's even half woes. But if in my text on the back dropped comma, or something like that. Not the word. What are your impressions on so much to distort that you will not be pleased doslushivat through. And I'm a man of the word. And if my word is distorted for me it will be a big blow. And it's not the main thing. Mostly still is truth. And it is more than words.
For me now the main thing that you understand only one thing. Of chalk and charcoal is time sharing which depends on at what point the water fills one or the other pools. The crust cracked lowering the level of the oceans. The time will surely everything will fall into place. And apparently still need to send more than one expedition that would check all of my arguments. But my idea is to be understood today. And from this moment to begin a new point of reference.
And then it will cause and consequence for the Pacific Atlantic, Indian, and others. We will talk about the Mariana Trench. And for what are the northern lowlands. Dell is all that alternately flooded with water in the course of evolutionary time of the planet.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Panda, posted 12-16-2012 7:01 AM Panda has responded

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